U12 Classics- Should we still have them?

[Urban Legend]

Should we continue to hold a State Classic for U12s when there is no next step for this age group from the State Classic?

There is no State team selected, no teams going to nationals and no development team selected to tour somewhere so what's the point?

Add to this that if it is held in the South then NQ parents have to fork out a bundle of money to attend and vice versa if it is held in the North. All of this to be followed by money for a further 6 years of attending classics in 14s, 16s & 18s. More money if they make State teams or development teams etc...

With all families hurting due to cost of living expenses why not just have BQJBC in the South, CQ Challenge in the Central and Top of the North in the North for U12s and leave it as that.

To add to this after watching & coaching at the first 3 days of the U12 State Classics this year I don't think there is the depth of referees to match the standard of play and the hard work put in by all these teams. Please do not take this as a crack at the referees but I really do not think there are enough good referees to match the standard of play. When most refs attending are Level 0 refs then you are just asking for conflict and when you see kids who look no more than 12 years old reffing games then something needs to change. Let them learn to ref through the BQJBC, CQ Challenge & TON so when they get to go to a 14s classic they are experienced (hopefully).

If there are only 3 State Classics (14s, 16s & 18s) then surely it alleviates associations having to send refs to tournaments who are just not ready for it just so they avoid being fined for not sending a ref.

This also allows the 14s & 16s being run at Easter without having to overlap with each other or over the 12s and in turn you don't stretch your resources too thin(refs, coaches, volunteers etc...).

Add to this the chance to develop these young kids in 12s without the pressure of results at State Classics and the parent pressure associated with that.

You may agree or disagree with my comments but I thought it was something that would be interesting to discuss and to see other people's opinions on the issue.

[Unregistered]

dude its simply a good first step for young basketballers

yeh they go extra step with the comp, but its gonna help them somewhere...

Its also good prep for making those teams in U14s and also helps coaches picking the teams...

Also great for referees development and the upbringing of referees to a higher level of junior basketball...

I played in it, I loved it and it sure has helped my game in the long run...

PEACE.

[Urban Legend]

I see what you are saying but can't all the things you mentioned be achieved through BQJBC, CQ Challenge & Top of the North.

[Unregistered]

Some interesting comments , I was out there for the past couple of days and coming from NSW the whole Classics thing is a bit of a eye opener. State Championships in the Southern States are only open to teams that qualify for them by winning there way through qualification tournaments.

They are for the elite teams throughout the State and are the basis for players that are targeted for elite programmes later on.

One solution would be to run the 12's and 14's in the same venue with only teams that have qualified being able to participate as well a better selection of referees available for both age groups.

This produces a much smaller tournament but the standard is much higher.

A second tier competition could be run for smaller Associations i.e. not Premier League Teams.

Referees , they are a problem everywhere but the inconsistency between what is called in one game and not in the next is mind blowing. They are far to young be doing these games and that shows with the overcalling that occurred during the week. They believe that good reffing is calling everything and anticipating calls.

These are just thoughts from someone fairly new to QLD basketball and I probably don't understand the constraints with Travel and weather in the Far North of the State.

The Classics themselves seem to have a identity crisis, are they the elite State Championships or just a social event for teams at the end of a long long year. ????

[Unregistered]

I see what you are saying but can't all the things you mentioned be achieved through BQJBC, CQ Challenge & Top of the North.

Yeh that is true mate, excellent point...

[Unregistered]

Should we continue to hold a State Classic for U12s when there is no next step for this age group from the State Classic?

There is no State team selected, no teams going to nationals and no development team selected to tour somewhere so what's the point?

Add to this that if it is held in the South then NQ parents have to fork out a bundle of money to attend and vice versa if it is held in the North. All of this to be followed by money for a further 6 years of attending classics in 14s, 16s & 18s. More money if they make State teams or development teams etc...

With all families hurting due to cost of living expenses why not just have BQJBC in the South, CQ Challenge in the Central and Top of the North in the North for U12s and leave it as that.

To add to this after watching & coaching at the first 3 days of the U12 State Classics this year I don't think there is the depth of referees to match the standard of play and the hard work put in by all these teams. Please do not take this as a crack at the referees but I really do not think there are enough good referees to match the standard of play. When most refs attending are Level 0 refs then you are just asking for conflict and when you see kids who look no more than 12 years old reffing games then something needs to change. Let them learn to ref through the BQJBC, CQ Challenge & TON so when they get to go to a 14s classic they are experienced (hopefully).

If there are only 3 State Classics (14s, 16s & 18s) then surely it alleviates associations having to send refs to tournaments who are just not ready for it just so they avoid being fined for not sending a ref.

This also allows the 14s & 16s being run at Easter without having to overlap with each other or over the 12s and in turn you don't stretch your resources too thin(refs, coaches, volunteers etc...).

Add to this the chance to develop these young kids in 12s without the pressure of results at State Classics and the parent pressure associated with that.

You may agree or disagree with my comments but I thought it was something that would be interesting to discuss and to see other people's opinions on the issue.

I do believe there should be a under 12 tournament.

however I do believe the 4 day event is a stretch for players. 3 days tops at that age group would improve the quality of games. Also there time between PL and classics is far too long, teams loose focus and some players get caught up with other sports.

div 1 pools should be smaller (4 pools with 3 teams in each pool) to identify top 2 in each pool by the end of day 1.

My view on the Referee's was that they were far too junior and well below the standard. This is not the fault of Referee's but questions have to asked of the standards that BQ accept to run such a tournament.

After coaching age groups of u12, u14 and u16s, I believe that the majority of referee's that attended u16s should have been at 14s, the under 14s refs should have been at under 12s and the under 12s referee's should have been reffing club basketball for another year to get some game experience.

Around the year 2000 all the way thru to 2004 the standard of refereeing was at a high level and you were not invited unless you met a specific level - I feel this level has dropped somewhat.

[Unregistered]

RE comments regarding under 12 classics. Firstly as a parent and manager I would like to thank Northside Wizards for an enjoyable 4 days. Having attended three classics this year as a parent I think the level of refs sent to these events needs to be overhauled and that is not a shot at those people who put themselves out there so our kids can play basketball, but I do think it is time BQ stood up and put in place some quality programs for our refs and also give them the support they need to achieve their goal.

This is the 6th under 12 classics we have had kids playing in and I can see both for and against, but I am a sucker and if my kids want to keep playing we will keep paying!!!!! On this years classics I was impressed with the depth of players and coaches and how exciting is that for future competitions. I am probably a bit selfish because I love going to classics, hearing the crowds, seeing the kids have a ball and watching them make friends from all over the state. Coming from a smaller association ,who in the last couple of years is starting to be competitve, under 12 classics is still alive!!!!!

[Unregistered]

Let the U12's play !

[darkjedi]

Referees , they are a problem everywhere but the inconsistency between what is called in one game and not in the next is mind blowing. They are far to young be doing these games and that shows with the overcalling that occurred during the week. They believe that good reffing is calling everything and anticipating calls.

So you're saying that junior refs should fully understand advantage/disadvantage at this level of their development and know how to accurately apply the knowledge?

Yeah, right. At that level, good reffing *is* identifying contact and calling everything. adv/disadv shouldn't even be coming into their understanding at this point.

[Unregistered]

My view on the Referee's was that they were far too junior and well below the standard. This is not the fault of Referee's but questions have to asked of the standards that BQ accept to run such a tournament.


As a referee myself, however i was not refereeing the tournament, these young and immature referees have cause me to feel ashamed, lets hope theres some more depth at u14s and they can pick up the broken pieces.

On the topic on continuing 12's i have played and reffed at u12 classics

as a player it was a highlight, its not all about state and finding those key players who will b our future ais stars its about fun.... i mean cmon there u12s!!!

let them play and go enjoy themselves

as a ref i found it a great learning curve, i don't know what happened at this classics though, the past 12 classics i went to i was learning numerous things which have helped me to get to where i am now in my career.

[Unregistered]

After coaching age groups of u12, u14 and u16s, I believe that the majority of referee's that attended u16s should have been at 14s, the under 14s refs should have been at under 12s and the under 12s referee's should have been reffing club basketball for another year to get some game experience.



Although i do agree this years u12 wasnt top notch how can you make that claim when u14 hasn't been. I also disagree the standard of 16s was low. There were 1 or 2 refs that shouldn't have been there, the rest, i do believe, had the skill and experience to be there

[Unregistered]

Although i do agree this years u12 wasnt top notch how can you make that claim when u14 hasn't been. I also disagree the standard of 16s was low. There were 1 or 2 refs that shouldn't have been there, the rest, i do believe, had the skill and experience to be there

I have coached at all 3 classics so far (12s 16s and 18s) i think the key to geting good refs at the u12s classics was having good evaluators on your game. In some games the evaluators would coach the young refs throughout the entire game, talkin to them every chance they get. In others the evaluators were no where to be seen, and in most cases this is where i would get fustrated with the refs. As for the other clasics no problems with refs that i can remember.

[Unregistered]

I coached a Boys Div 1 Team at the recent Under 12 Tournament.
Firstly I would like to congratulate Wizards on running a great tournament.Friendly personell at all levels!! Good communication and well organised. Well done, Wizards!
The 4 day length was just right and my players learnt a lot. We got a chance to play teams that had previously beat us and either scrape a win or reduce the margin and this is what it all about !
The refereeing was a bit patchy especially at first. However as the tournament progressed I noted a general improvement and also the active presence of more evaluators. Like my young players second time round these referees did a better job!!
Like players developing referees need good coaches!!
Cheers!!

[Unregistered]

The standard of referree's at U12 was reasonably okay, however, the standard at U14 girls at Logan has been extremly sub standard. Ref's calling the game to a screaching halt one day and then letting the girls get beaten up the next...no consistency and no maturity being offered during this tournament. In Div one the level of play is beyond the ability of most of the refs, that they look out classed by the players. It is disappointing for the players, coaches and supporters.

[Unregistered]

with many valid points raised in this i see more positives than negaitives i think maybe a restructure of classics especaly with the under 20 comp now in and word of classics being introduced its going to put more strain on the referees.

i think to better assist referees the state body should have a specailst referees role within the office looking after training and development of referees also as all coaches at rep level has some maturaty we should fill out some evaluation form done within boundarys to gather and collect information and then the bq referees person can see what probliems orrur with what officals and venues are like with consistacy perfromance and also professionalism as at time where do coaches go to ensure the game moves forward in such a high standard.

[Unregistered]

with many valid points raised in this i see more positives than negaitives i think maybe a restructure of classics especaly with the under 20 comp now in and word of classics being introduced its going to put more strain on the referees.

i think to better assist referees the state body should have a specailst referees role within the office looking after training and development of referees also as all coaches at rep level has some maturaty we should fill out some evaluation form done within boundarys to gather and collect information and then the bq referees person can see what probliems orrur with what officals and venues are like with consistacy perfromance and also professionalism as at time where do coaches go to ensure the game moves forward in such a high standard.

I like this idea. Coaches should be able to give feedback that can aid in the development of referees. I agree with a previus respondent about the inconsistency in standards with the hugh swing from over calling to under calling. This was very evident at both 12 and 14 classics. As coaches we do want to find a balance as ideally good coaching needs to be supported by good refereeing. These ideas are certainly worthy of further consideration.

[Laughing Dog]

Firstly I would like to thank Northside Wizards for a great tournament, it was a very well organised, friendly atmosphere and a pleasure to attend.

As for whether we should continue with the U12 Classics...are you mad of course we should the kids love it. As a first time attendee of the classics I could not get over how much fun the kids were having. My child had an absolute fantastic time and is now talking about next year’s trip already. If we were to take this away from them we would run the risk of losing them to another sport. Let’s face it the kids are the future of this great game and we need to get retain them. Even though there is no further path for the kids at this level it certainly keeps them interested and part of the sport.
Long live the U12 Classics!!!!