QBL 2009 - Week 13

[Michael]

Maroochydore v Cairns
Mackay v Rockhampton

Bundaberg v Cairns
Ipswich v Caboolture
Northside v Brisbane
Townsville v Rockhampton

Caboolture v Cairns
Gold Coast v Toowoomba

(Home Team Listed First)

[Michael]

Maroochydore v Cairns
Mackay v Rockhampton

Bundaberg v Cairns
Ipswich v Caboolture
Northside v Brisbane
Townsville v Rockhampton

Caboolture v Cairns
Gold Coast v Toowoomba

(Home Team Listed First)

I'm Going with:
Cairns over Maroochydore -- 30
Tough one... Mackay over Rocky -- 3
Cairns over Bundy -- 37
Caboolture over Ipswich -- 15
Northside over Brisbane -- 22
Rocky over Townsville -- 19
Cairns over Caboolture -- 28
Gold Coast over Toowoomba -- 24

Just my predictions... Mackay vs Rocky will be a great match

[Unregistered]

Maroochydore v Cairns - As attacking and fast-paced as the Clippers are the league-leading Marlins will be far too strong here. Led by Aaron Grabau, Kerry Williams, Dwayne Vale and Rowan Gray. Cairns by 18.
Mackay v Rockhampton - Wonderful, spiteful, Origin like match-up. Both teams will genuinely believe they are the better team and I think with a firing Scott Cook, John Fitzgerald and Todd Blanchfield the Meteors will get this win. Meteors by 7.

Bundaberg v Cairns - Tough trip up to Bundaberg for the Marlins in a nightmare triple-header but the only player with a worry here is Dean Brebner. He will be asked to contain Matthew Hanson. Hanson will still get his 30 and 16 but the Fish will win by 30+.
Ipswich v Caboolture - To me, Ipswich should win this game. I think they have a lot better starting unit and more talented players on their roster. However, they are gross under-achievers and have been very dissapointing. Somehow I am tipping them to win by 6.
Northside v Brisbane - Brisbane's veterans will need to step up here but Andrew Latimer cannot even hope to contain Cameron Tragardh and the Capitals have know one capable of guarding Tim Coenradd and Adam Gibson. Wizards by 22.
Townsville v Rockhampton - Do or die game for the Heat. If they lose they will definately be out of finals contention. Michael Cedar must put his stamp on this game, Anthony Susnjara has been solid as a rock all season and with Cameron Tovey coming back into the line-up things look positive for the team. Heat for me, by 9.

Caboolture v Cairns - Tough place to play on a Sunday afternoon, zero aptomsphere, big eerie stadium. But the Marlins are savvy, classy and solid and will get this win by over 20 in a game where the reserves may play a big role.
Gold Coast v Toowoomba - Whilst the Mountaineers have improved slightly all season long they have nobody capable of stopping Scott McGregor or David Gurney. Goannas by 19.

[Mr bEn]

Absolutely pivotal game for southern playoff hosting rights this weekend with Northside hosting Brisbane on Saturday night.

If Brisbane wins, that puts them two Ws clear of Northside and a practical guarantee they'll host the playoff re-match.

If Northside wins, both teams will sit level on 11 & 4.

The run home for both teams afterwards is:

Brisbane - @ Rocky, @ Mackay, @ Ipswich

Northside - @ Townie, @ Cairns, vs Rocky

Brisbane have a gimme against the Ippy boys (sorry Ryan Jeffries and co), but the other games are all tough as nuts. Could come down to a for and against split, with Brisbane currently +8 after the first round meeting.

[Unregistered]

Maroochydore v Cairns - As attacking and fast-paced as the Clippers are the league-leading Marlins will be far too strong here. Led by Aaron Grabau, Kerry Williams, Dwayne Vale and Rowan Gray. Cairns by 18.
Mackay v Rockhampton - Wonderful, spiteful, Origin like match-up. Both teams will genuinely believe they are the better team and I think with a firing Scott Cook, John Fitzgerald and Todd Blanchfield the Meteors will get this win. Meteors by 7.

Bundaberg v Cairns - Tough trip up to Bundaberg for the Marlins in a nightmare triple-header but the only player with a worry here is Dean Brebner. He will be asked to contain Matthew Hanson. Hanson will still get his 30 and 16 but the Fish will win by 30+.
Ipswich v Caboolture - To me, Ipswich should win this game. I think they have a lot better starting unit and more talented players on their roster. However, they are gross under-achievers and have been very dissapointing. Somehow I am tipping them to win by 6.
Northside v Brisbane - Brisbane's veterans will need to step up here but Andrew Latimer cannot even hope to contain Cameron Tragardh and the Capitals have know one capable of guarding Tim Coenradd and Adam Gibson. Wizards by 22.
Townsville v Rockhampton - Do or die game for the Heat. If they lose they will definately be out of finals contention. Michael Cedar must put his stamp on this game, Anthony Susnjara has been solid as a rock all season and with Cameron Tovey coming back into the line-up things look positive for the team. Heat for me, by 9.

Caboolture v Cairns - Tough place to play on a Sunday afternoon, zero aptomsphere, big eerie stadium. But the Marlins are savvy, classy and solid and will get this win by over 20 in a game where the reserves may play a big role.
Gold Coast v Toowoomba - Whilst the Mountaineers have improved slightly all season long they have nobody capable of stopping Scott McGregor or David Gurney. Goannas by 19.


That's laughable that you think Toowoomba have no one that can stop Gurney! Gurney used to play for Toowoomba and most of the guys in Toowoomba's side have played with Gurney and know how he plays! When these two teams last met Toowoomba managed to keep Gurney quiet.... lets just wait and see

[Coach_P]

After reading all season I thought I'd have a go at sharing my picks.

Maroochydore Vs Cairns - No choice but to go with Cairns here. Despite being on top they've still got Home Finals to play for so will not let their guard down. Excellent transition defence will nullify the Clippers running game and their strength all over the floor will be too much for the young Clippers Group, Cairns by 30

Mackay Vs Rocky - Tough one here. Mackay can certainly run with Rocky as we saw last time, but Rocky have been rolling along ever since and will certainly be out for revenge. Since the forum has been a bit quiet this week and the game is in Mackay, I'm going to tip the Meteors, simply cause I can't split them and whenever someone says anything against Rocky, the Boards seem to light up, guess there's not much else for the locals to do up there. Mackay by 5

Bundaberg Vs Cairns - Cairns will steam roll Bundy. With injuries Bundy are basically a one horse team at the moment, all be it a good one in Hanson. But he can't stop the Marlins spread of attack alone. Cairns by 49.

Ipswich Vs Coastal - On paper Ippy should be able to get this at home. Broom and Milne down low could go either way. Cann better defence, Ajayi better offence, Stolberg should gain an edge at the four spot and Jefferies at the three. That being said, Rocky's penetration might be hard for Ippy to contain and their better bench depth will get them over the line. Coastal by 9

Northside Vs Brisbane - Offensive Team Vs Defensive Team. Northside can certainly score (we Neers boys can vouch for that), with Brisbane bringing one of the better defences in the league. If Gibson can help lift Northside's defence and stop Brisbane's guards being able to penetrate at will, Northside's running attack should be able to wear down the caps by the end of the night. With Both teams so close on the ladder and nightmare runs home, and Coastal not too far behind (with two Bundy games to come) alot on the line here. Northside by 5.

Townsville Vs Rockhampton - Townsville at home and full strength at last, Rocky tired from a tough one, but I think Rocky have more to play for with Townsville needing the top three to beat each other in the right combinations. Goona take Rocky in atight one here. Rocky by 4.

Coastal Vs Cairns - Cairns 3rd Game, Coastals second. Wont help though, Cairns aren't dropping this one. Will be able to play the bench a bit in the first two games so still fresh enough to get it done here. Cairns by 29.

Gold Coast Vs Toowoomba - Of course the ladder shows Gold Coast to win this comfortably but I think we have a shot here. Gurney is hard for any team to stop and Macgregor has been solid every week, but if we can keep their impact within reason and not let the likes of Olah score easy points again, we can get the upset. With only two more chanes to eat this doughnut, it's basically now or never. Neers by 7

[Unregistered]

Who is reffing the Mackay vs Rocky game tonight??

[darkjedi]

Who is reffing the Mackay vs Rocky game tonight??
Superman, Chewbacca and King Kong.

Who knows? More to the point, who cares and why does it matter?

[Unregistered]

Probably because last time these 2 teams met there were thugs and low acts everywhere, including at least 1 attempted murder. You really want some decent refs to hopefully stop those attempted murders.

[Unregistered]

Probably because last time these 2 teams met there were thugs and low acts everywhere, including at least 1 attempted murder. You really want some decent refs to hopefully stop those attempted murders.

Exactly right!!! Games like these really need the top refs!!

[Unregistered]

Who is reffing the Mackay vs Rocky game tonight??

Mick Moorhouse, Toni Caldwell and C Wharley according to the refs draw on QBL website

[Centrebet]

Toni Caldwell .. lord help them!

[Unregistered]

Toni Caldwell .. lord help them!

I'm with you...this could be awful!

[landy]

Game tonite Mackay Rocky will be live on Internet. Click on QBL then Courtlive to watch.

[Unregistered]

Game tonite Mackay Rocky will be live on Internet. Click on QBL then Courtlive to watch.

I'll believe it when i see it. Does Mackay even have electricity?

[Michael]

There are some good courtlive games left for the rest of the season and I have watched 2 and they have both worked fine, only about 3 minutes behind the actual games.

Mackay v Rocky
Northside v Brisbane
Cairns v Northside
Cairns v Rocky
Northside v Rocky

They are going to be the best games left in the season, so as long as it works - AWESOME!

[Michael]

There are some good courtlive games left for the rest of the season and I have watched 2 and they have both worked fine, only about 3 minutes behind the actual games.

Mackay v Rocky
Northside v Brisbane
Cairns v Northside
Cairns v Rocky
Northside v Rocky

They are going to be the best games left in the season, so as long as it works - AWESOME!

Currently watching Mackay v Rocky.
Mackay up 57-51 at half time

[Unregistered]

Can someone at the game give us some more in-depth detail of the game so far or post after the match is finished. Really interested in the individual match-ups and how the rivalry continues to evolve.

[Unregistered]

Couldnt get live stats does anyone have the results on the women Mackay V Rocky

[Michael]

MACKAY DEFEATED ROCKHAMPTON 117-111
Also, Live stats wasn't working so no idea how the girls went.

I believe that means Cairns goes back up to first place on the Ladder, with Rocky 2nd and Mackay 3rd. If Rocky loses another game Mackay might be making the finals

[Unregistered]

Mackay women won : 92-72 ?

[Unregistered]

Mackay Over Rocky 117-111.

Golson wouldn't even shake hands afterward from what the Livecast showed (thanks for the feed landy, worked Beautifully all game), just walked straight to the bench.

Bit of contraversy with Aucion picking up an unsportsmanlike late in the game allowing Mackay to go from 2 down to 3 up, then fouling out a few plays later.

But as a Neutral fan from the South, I think they got the call right. But knowing what poor losers Rocky fans can be, we'll here about it for the next week.

Now if Cairns can beat Rocky in a few weeks we could see another Mackay/Rocky game in Mackay for the quarter final, with Mackay now having the split.

[Unregistered]

Great game in Mackay tonight. Plenty of lead changes throughout the night with the Meteors up at half by 6. Rocky came back strong in the 3rd and got up by as many as 8 into the 4th. Rhys Martin carried the team for most of the 3rd and pushed them to the lead. Picked up his 5th in the 3rd I think which slowed him up on the defensive end a little. Big call with around 5 to go with Aucoin called for a unsporstmanlike, resulting in Cooky hitting 2 free throws and a 3 point shot from Blanchfield putting the Meteors ahead. Cook getting the Meteors home in the final minutes making some good decisions offensively.

Must mention one of the biggest dunks seen in the Mackay stadium from Reggie Golson. Reggie got it on the break from Aucoin and took a bump from Jackson and Cook and proceeded to flush it with the left hand. It was huge!!!

Would be interested to see if that is the best 3 referees that the QBL has to cover such a game. Some very inconsistent calls throughout the night on both sides of the coin. You would think the QBL would put the best officials on the best games.

All in all a great spectacle in front of a packed house.

[Mr bEn]

Looking at the Maroochy v Cairns boxscore and see Gianni had 8 fouls ..... misprint?

Also keen to hear further details on the Mackay v Rocky game. How did the Aucoin/Krugs battle go?

[Unregistered]

Toni is the worst ref in the QABL. She should not have been allocated the Mackay v Rocky game. She screwed Jason...again... Very inconsistent!

[Unregistered]

Sucks rocky lost, but did you see the numbers Martin put up? 39pts, 12rbs, 5as, 4st. Nice.

[Unregistered]

Looking at the Maroochy v Cairns boxscore and see Gianni had 8 fouls ..... misprint?

Also keen to hear further details on the Mackay v Rocky game. How did the Aucoin/Krugs battle go?

There really was no Aucoin/Krugs battle to speak of. Just an outstanding game of basketball played in a great atmosphere with both sides letting it all hang out.

Outstanding matchup between Cook and Martin. Cook 38 pts on 17 shots with 11 assists and 6 boards, Martin 39 pts on 26 shots with 12 boards and 6 assists. Fair dinkum if these two blokes don't make an NBL roster either NBL GMs are poor of the NBL is one hell of a league.

Golson dunk ranks right up there with anything James Smith threw down (thats saying something) but I think Reggie would probably be disappointed with his game overall.

When Meteors struggled in the 3rd quarter guess who kept them in the hunt, G Kruger. Great game from Krugs with no so called controversy, just doing his role.

In the end Meteors, especially Cook hit the big shots at the end and Rocky missed a few, but an extremely entertaining game for a packed house showcasing a great league. BORGY

[Unregistered]

Toni is the worst ref in the QABL. She should not have been allocated the Mackay v Rocky game. She screwed Jason...again... Very inconsistent!

Please do not blame the refs for Rocky losing, agreed Toni is awful, in fact downright terrible but do not start a long drawn out affair blaming her for the loss.

[Unregistered]

Looking at the Maroochy v Cairns boxscore and see Gianni had 8 fouls ..... misprint?


Nah thats right, 8 fouls it was. Not very smart but sort of understand the guy doing his 'nana.
Interesting passage of play where Izzy blew by Grabeau pretty easy to score, Grabeau gets away on the break in reply only to be clean blocked by ...yeh Izzy. Grabeau gives him a fore arm jolt to the mouth, Gianni gives Grabeau a shove into the back wall to get him off the young guy, a melee erupts, Gianni comes away with an unsportsmanlike, game deteriorates from a boring 20 point thrashing into an ugly spiteful 20 point thrashing. Towards the end after a whole night of argy bargy disguised as basketball and Gianni copping more than his share of treatment he got called his 6th foul for something that in the context of the nights game didnt warrant the ref wasting his breath. Gianni took it personally and gave the ref an extended remix version of his feelings which brought on two more fouls/techs whatever you call them.
Piss poor game with Maroochydore only having 7 players and Cairns running their bench most of the game. Only highlights would be the standout performance of Isiah Tueta at both ends and the performances of the Meehl brothers showing great courage fighting a losing battle.

[The Trailer]

Nah thats right, 8 fouls it was. Not very smart but sort of understand the guy doing his 'nana.
Interesting passage of play where Izzy blew by Grabeau pretty easy to score, Grabeau gets away on the break in reply only to be clean blocked by ...yeh Izzy. Grabeau gives him a fore arm jolt to the mouth, Gianni gives Grabeau a shove into the back wall to get him off the young guy, a melee erupts, Gianni comes away with an unsportsmanlike, game deteriorates from a boring 20 point thrashing into an ugly spiteful 20 point thrashing. Towards the end after a whole night of argy bargy disguised as basketball and Gianni copping more than his share of treatment he got called his 6th foul for something that in the context of the nights game didnt warrant the ref wasting his breath. Gianni took it personally and gave the ref an extended remix version of his feelings which brought on two more fouls/techs whatever you call them.
Piss poor game with Maroochydore only having 7 players and Cairns running their bench most of the game. Only highlights would be the standout performance of Isiah Tueta at both ends and the performances of the Meehl brothers showing great courage fighting a losing battle.
Grabeau is a gift from heaven and can't be touched from anyone, you didn't know!!!

[Unregistered]

saw grabau play at brisbane, shot like 25 free throws- its getting old, guy plays it rough but then crys when he gets hit

[Unregistered]

Nah thats right, 8 fouls it was. Not very smart but sort of understand the guy doing his 'nana.
Interesting passage of play where Izzy blew by Grabeau pretty easy to score, Grabeau gets away on the break in reply only to be clean blocked by ...yeh Izzy. Grabeau gives him a fore arm jolt to the mouth, Gianni gives Grabeau a shove into the back wall to get him off the young guy, a melee erupts, Gianni comes away with an unsportsmanlike, game deteriorates from a boring 20 point thrashing into an ugly spiteful 20 point thrashing. Towards the end after a whole night of argy bargy disguised as basketball and Gianni copping more than his share of treatment he got called his 6th foul for something that in the context of the nights game didnt warrant the ref wasting his breath. Gianni took it personally and gave the ref an extended remix version of his feelings which brought on two more fouls/techs whatever you call them.
Piss poor game with Maroochydore only having 7 players and Cairns running their bench most of the game. Only highlights would be the standout performance of Isiah Tueta at both ends and the performances of the Meehl brothers showing great courage fighting a losing battle.

Man what game were you at. The clips went down by 12 early and then held their own till late in the third despite 2 refs kissing Cairns arse laghing and joking with players and coach letting them foul like crazy and calling touches at the other end
The clippers tied cairns in knots a few times with a trapping press got a bunch of 8 second calls and turnovers. Goffy was inspirational as were all the team with extended pressure and a gutsy effort
Especially without Scott kenny and Josh Tueta in the US playing recruiting tourneys and Dante also stateside for 2 weeks 3 starters out and not a backward step. All the niggle instigated by Cairns and despite the score an effort to be proud of

[Unregistered]

What Aaron Grabau does is very annoying if you are an opposition player but can you honestly blame him.

The referee's fall for his flops on defense then when he feels any contact whatsoever he dives to the floor like a sniper rifle has hit him. In my opinion it is up to the referee's to get on top of his drama acts.

Grabau is a veteran who should be able to handle the hits as he is a well-built man himself.

[Michael]

Just got back from northside v Brisbane.

Brisbane won 125-119 I think... Can't remember the final score.
Offense v defence with defence winning. Northside just didn't play good enough defence. Gibbo hit a shot on the buzzer to send the game into over time but with Coenraad fouled out, Davis, Tragargh, and Gibbo on 5 fouls each Brisbane just dominated.
Wizards Big 4 each got into double figures with Cam hitting 41.
Other than that - Meh
Brisbane v Northside Quarter Final @ Brisbane

[Mr bEn]

Caps up over Wiz by 6 in OT tonight. Remarkable victory if you're a Caps fan, and hard to swallow if you barrack for Northside.

Apart from the opening minutes, Wizards led reasonably comfortably for the majority of the match. The injection of Al White near the end of the third quarter sparked the Caps, who finished the quarter strongly and continued their surge into the final quarter.

Brisbane took the lead with about 7 minutes to go in regulation and increased their lead to as much as 6 or 7 thanks to some hot shooting and strong defence led by Benny Castle. Wizards looked like they lost the will to fight, and were still down by that margin inside the last minute. Prayers were answers as the home side somehow shaved the margin, and Gibbo swished a three on the buzzer to put the gam into OT and put a spark through the crowd.

Wizards started the stronger of the two teams in the extra five minutes and were up by three with three mintues to go. Two bad decisions by Woody put them on the back foot, Caps took the lead and held on to it for the win.

For the winners, Benny Castle was amazing, perhaps his best game this season. Fergy did his thing quietly and scored well. Shaw chipped in here and there when needed and Al White played superbly (thought he should've been thrown into the game much earlier). Lats looked dangerous in the first half but can't even remember him being on the court in the second.

For the Wizards, Trigger had another classy game and played hard, and Shane Davis was sublime. Gibbo played strongly. TC was unusually quiet. His exit in the fourth quarter after fouling out highlighted the Wizards lack of dependable players on the bench with Zaremba and Darragh not playing. Woody is a great bloke but an offensive liability if being relied upon to play more than 15 minutes a game.

In the end no matter which side you support, a great game of hoops.

ps: thanks to the bloke who replied re: Maroochy v Cairns. Just curious, what happened to the other Moochy boys who usually play but didn't?

[Michael]

Caps up over Wiz by 6 in OT tonight. Remarkable victory if you're a Caps fan, and hard to swallow if you barrack for Northside.

Apart from the opening minutes, Wizards led reasonably comfortably for the majority of the match. The injection of Al White near the end of the third quarter sparked the Caps, who finished the quarter strongly and continued their surge into the final quarter.

Brisbane took the lead with about 7 minutes to go in regulation and increased their lead to as much as 6 or 7 thanks to some hot shooting and strong defence led by Benny Castle. Wizards looked like they lost the will to fight, and were still down by that margin inside the last minute. Prayers were answers as the home side somehow shaved the margin, and Gibbo swished a three on the buzzer to put the gam into OT and put a spark through the crowd.

Wizards started the stronger of the two teams in the extra five minutes and were up by three with three mintues to go. Two bad decisions by Woody put them on the back foot, Caps took the lead and held on to it for the win.

For the winners, Benny Castle was amazing, perhaps his best game this season. Fergy did his thing quietly and scored well. Shaw chipped in here and there when needed and Al White played superbly (thought he should've been thrown into the game much earlier). Lats looked dangerous in the first half but can't even remember him being on the court in the second.

For the Wizards, Trigger had another classy game and played hard, and Shane Davis was sublime. Gibbo played strongly. TC was unusually quiet. His exit in the fourth quarter after fouling out highlighted the Wizards lack of dependable players on the bench with Zaremba and Darragh not playing. Woody is a great bloke but an offensive liability if being relied upon to play more than 15 minutes a game.

In the end no matter which side you support, a great game of hoops.

ps: thanks to the bloke who replied re: Maroochy v Cairns. Just curious, what happened to the other Moochy boys who usually play but didn't?


Yeah it was a great game - but if you are a wizards fan, dissapointing. not in the way they played, but just the result

[Unregistered]

Clippers Scot kenny and Josh Tueta in the states playing in a couple of recruiting tournaments with the teams blessing. Dante left at short notice to go home, not sure why
Gianni also away for remainder of season
4 starters away, good opportunity for youngsters to step up
The 4th under 18 player doug Jones made his debut this week with possibly a fifth to play next week plus a couple of d leaguers. Clippers standing by their policy of developing home grown talent and competing well. Have to agree with earlier post, I was impressed with the teams effort and morale friday v Cairns however it Will be even tougher the next 2 games Good luck team

[Unregistered]

in the womens things have swung

Rocky dropped both on the weekend with out abby bishop and I hear she is out for the season so there hopes are pretty much gone which is a shame as they are the better team in the comp.

Townsville are top spot and have pretty much cemented a home finals again as they have 1 game clear of gladstone and and have the spread on them beating them twice. Cant see the flames loosing both of there next 2 against the wizards and meteorettes.

Gladstone now 2nd spot and will host rocky in the quarter finals and a great chance for them to make the grand final.

[Unregistered]

Nah thats right, 8 fouls it was. Not very smart but sort of understand the guy doing his 'nana.
Interesting passage of play where Izzy blew by Grabeau pretty easy to score, Grabeau gets away on the break in reply only to be clean blocked by ...yeh Izzy. Grabeau gives him a fore arm jolt to the mouth, Gianni gives Grabeau a shove into the back wall to get him off the young guy, a melee erupts, Gianni comes away with an unsportsmanlike, game deteriorates from a boring 20 point thrashing into an ugly spiteful 20 point thrashing. Towards the end after a whole night of argy bargy disguised as basketball and Gianni copping more than his share of treatment he got called his 6th foul for something that in the context of the nights game didnt warrant the ref wasting his breath. Gianni took it personally and gave the ref an extended remix version of his feelings which brought on two more fouls/techs whatever you call them.
Piss poor game with Maroochydore only having 7 players and Cairns running their bench most of the game. Only highlights would be the standout performance of Isiah Tueta at both ends and the performances of the Meehl brothers showing great courage fighting a losing battle.
Yeh didnt mean to detract from the efforts of the entire Clippers team against very tough opposition. Just took for granted that everybody there knew that they were a great young outfit under fire.

[Unregistered]

in the womens things have swung

Rocky dropped both on the weekend with out abby bishop and I hear she is out for the season so there hopes are pretty much gone which is a shame as they are the better team in the comp.



The best teams in the comp are the ones with depth that can handle setbacks. After dropping 3 straight this shows the lack of depth for them. They have done a great job this year but to call them the better TEAM is a bit much I think.

[landy]

Anyone see the Tville Rocky mens game? Looks like Rocky had no trouble.Golson and Martin had good weekend

[Mr bEn]

Yeah it was a great game - but if you are a wizards fan, dissapointing. not in the way they played, but just the result

In reflection, the first three quarters were very pedestrian, but the fourth and OT were a great spectacle - a 101 lesson in clutch shooting at its best.

Weren't many spectacular plays, but the the two that come to mind were

- Latts diving on ground (yes you read right) and getting the ball to Al White (I think) for an easy bucket

- Gibbo shooting a baseline mid-ranger, loosing the ball in mid-jump, grabbing it again and swishing the bucket all in one motion/ 10/10 degree of difficulty

[Unregistered]

rocky fans must have to wait to get to work on mondays to get near a computer,otherwise the thread would have blown up by now how there the greatest an they were robbed in mackay again,hahahahaha.

[Unregistered]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/5304/table14.jpg

[Unregistered]

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8998/teamsl.jpg

[Unregistered]

Anyone see the Tville Rocky mens game? Looks like Rocky had no trouble.Golson and Martin had good weekend

Was at the Heat versus Rockets game on Saturday evening. Coach Rob Rose was really disgusted at one particular referee officiating in the men's and women's games.
Here are my point's that decided the game:
- Reggie Golson was on fire almost all evening. Shot the ball at a great clip, the stat sheet reads four rebounds but I am thinking more like 8.
- Michael Cedar, whilst effective on offense couldn't guard Golson and refused to let anyone else mark him until Cameron Tovey took over and did a better job.
- Coach Neil Tweedy far out-coached Rose and his staff. He gave his stars rest early and they were able to run out the match. Rose tried to rely on a six-man rotation whilst players of good ability sat the game out.
- Townsville have had too many distractions all season. Rob Rose being suspended, then absent, O'Farrell has coached, Boyd has coached, Tovey went away for a month, Cedar came in late and guys aren't really sure what they're role is.

And therefore they are done for 2009. The Rockets however looks to be ready to stomp on the Meteors and Marlins party.

[Unregistered]

Was at the Heat versus Rockets game on Saturday evening. Coach Rob Rose was really disgusted at one particular referee officiating in the men's and women's games.
Here are my point's that decided the game:
- Reggie Golson was on fire almost all evening. Shot the ball at a great clip, the stat sheet reads four rebounds but I am thinking more like 8.
- Michael Cedar, whilst effective on offense couldn't guard Golson and refused to let anyone else mark him until Cameron Tovey took over and did a better job.
- Coach Neil Tweedy far out-coached Rose and his staff. He gave his stars rest early and they were able to run out the match. Rose tried to rely on a six-man rotation whilst players of good ability sat the game out.
- Townsville have had too many distractions all season. Rob Rose being suspended, then absent, O'Farrell has coached, Boyd has coached, Tovey went away for a month, Cedar came in late and guys aren't really sure what they're role is.

And therefore they are done for 2009. The Rockets however looks to be ready to stomp on the Meteors and Marlins party.

i agee with nearly everything you have said but you must be a Rocky fan with that last comment, did you watch the game the night before if Rocky play in Mackay it will season over Rocky if they make it to GF Cairns will state champs again

[Unregistered]

Was at the Heat versus Rockets game on Saturday evening. Coach Rob Rose was really disgusted at one particular referee officiating in the men's and women's games.
Here are my point's that decided the game:
- Reggie Golson was on fire almost all evening. Shot the ball at a great clip, the stat sheet reads four rebounds but I am thinking more like 8.
- Michael Cedar, whilst effective on offense couldn't guard Golson and refused to let anyone else mark him until Cameron Tovey took over and did a better job.
- Coach Neil Tweedy far out-coached Rose and his staff. He gave his stars rest early and they were able to run out the match. Rose tried to rely on a six-man rotation whilst players of good ability sat the game out.
- Townsville have had too many distractions all season. Rob Rose being suspended, then absent, O'Farrell has coached, Boyd has coached, Tovey went away for a month, Cedar came in late and guys aren't really sure what they're role is.

And therefore they are done for 2009. The Rockets however looks to be ready to stomp on the Meteors and Marlins party.

When was rose suspended

[Unregistered]

i agee with nearly everything you have said but you must be a Rocky fan with that last comment, did you watch the game the night before if Rocky play in Mackay it will season over Rocky if they make it to GF Cairns will state champs again

Well...as long as Toni doesn't ref again Rocky will win in Mackay...easy... And if you saw the game on Friday night, you would agree too.

[Unregistered]

Well...as long as Toni doesn't ref again Rocky will win in Mackay...easy... And if you saw the game on Friday night, you would agree too.

Ridiculous comment, I was there and do not agree

[Unregistered]

Well...as long as Toni doesn't ref again Rocky will win in Mackay...easy... And if you saw the game on Friday night, you would agree too.

I am not sure what your beef is with Toni but I would rank her as one of the better refs in the league. She is more than welcome to ref all our games and you can have some of these rookies we seem to get every week (not that I am knocking them :))

[Unregistered]

When was rose suspended

He was suspended after being thrown from a game in Brisbane against the Capitals. Was subsequently suspended for two matches. Then had a holiday in the US for another three weeks later on.

[Unregistered]

saw mick 'the hitman' catlin's name on the bundy boxscore this week. how did he go? was he just in town for the weekend?

[Unregistered]

http://www.dailymercury.com.au/media/img/news/2009/07/19/sp-19ball1_t325.jpg

Finals drought breaks (http://www.dailymercury.com.au/story/2009/07/20/Mackay-Meteors-basketball/)

Marlins eat up Rocky road (http://www.cairns.com.au/article/2009/07/20/52691_local-sport-news.html)

Suns eye hosting women's semi-final (http://www.thedaily.com.au/news/2009/jul/20/suns-eye-hosting-womens-semi-final/)

Toowoomba staring at winless season (http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2009/07/20/toowoomba-left-staring-at-winless-season/)

Bears claim win over Dolphins (http://www.news-mail.com.au/story/2009/07/20/bears-scrape-by-to-claim-victory-over-dolphins/)

Coach praises cyclones' heart (http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/story/2009/07/20/coach-praises-cyclones-heart-despite-losses/)

[Unregistered]

Well...as long as Toni doesn't ref again Rocky will win in Mackay...easy... And if you saw the game on Friday night, you would agree too.

here we go again,u rocky ppl are a bunch of sore losing bitches,u blame the refs again,that story got old quick last time.take the loss an stop crying.

[Unregistered]

The post above said Reggie did a huge dunk against mackay. The court live tv on the qabl site isn't working for me. Is it working for anyone else? I want to see this dunk!

[landy]

The post above said Reggie did a huge dunk against mackay. The court live tv on the qabl site isn't working for me. Is it working for anyone else? I want to see this dunk!

the guys are working on the files to improve quality so will be about 2 hrs and you should be able to see it ok. Here is a link to a smaller file you can watch now
http://www.courtlive.net/player/qbl.php?event=QBL_M_20090717_MACKAY_ROCKHAMPTON_32 0&height=360&islive=false&stretching=exactfit
copy and paste all that in your browser.

[Crazy Horse]

What a shocker for Toowoomba, my thoughts 0 & 18 (can't beat the Pirates). What's happening down there, no money for imports? Loss of players happens to everyone, what will be their recruiting stratergy? What are they planning for the 2010 season (not much fun for the supporters/sponsors)?

[Unregistered]

What a shocker for Toowoomba, my thoughts 0 & 18 (can't beat the Pirates). What's happening down there, no money for imports? Loss of players happens to everyone, what will be their recruiting stratergy? What are they planning for the 2010 season (not much fun for the supporters/sponsors)?

Not much fun for anyone involved. Lost Import due to $$$, Gurney lives at Goldy now days and Grieve retired. Starting 3,4 and 5 from last years team lost with no dollars to bring in any replacements, so everyone has had to try and step up.

Glover has been great all year and guys like Clifford and Tribe have played really well, but matching up against Justin Brown, Scott McGregor, Rowan Gray, Broome and Stolli, Lattimer and the imports round the league each week was always going to be a big ask.

If they can get some $$$ and bring in a big man will make a difference in actually having a low post presence on offence and someone to guard the bigs, as well as letting the guys playing the 4 and 5 slide up into their more natural positions. That alone should get them some wins. Find another player from arounf the league to join them and with Glover already there plus New Big Man could be respectable again.

Recruiting strategy will probably depend on money. Not easy to convince someone to go play in Toowoomba from somewhere else for free. Who's coaching will also affect recruiting strategy.

[Unregistered]

Glover has been great all year and guys like Clifford and Tribe have played really well, but matching up against Justin Brown, Scott McGregor, Rowan Gray, Broome and Stolli, Lattimer and the imports round the league each week was always going to be a big ask.

If.

Don't forget Cam Tragadh in that list. 70pts lol

[2 cents]

What a shocker for Toowoomba, my thoughts 0 & 18 (can't beat the Pirates). What's happening down there, no money for imports? Loss of players happens to everyone, what will be their recruiting stratergy? What are they planning for the 2010 season (not much fun for the supporters/sponsors)?

to be honest there would be a lot of teams in the same boat if they didnt have any money to recruit players... Rocky, Gladstone, Bundy would all be struggling would it not be for a healthy bank balance... although they haven't won a game they have competed with some teams which is pretty good considering they lost 3 of their 1st 5...

[Crazy Horse]

Are Toowoomba getting a new coach? Do they have any money in the pipeline or will it be another year like this year? I'm sure some of their players who aren't committed to living in Toowoomba may want to find other clubs to run with, is there a comment out there from anybody in Toowoomba. Should they be in the league if they are just going to be making up the numbers. Surely at this level the bottom four or five teams should be splitting the home and away games with each other if they are being competitive. Losing by ten points when teams have rotated their whole bench doesn't mean they are competitive, it just means it wasn't another twenty points plus blowout. I'd like to see them there but obviously something drastic needs to be done.

[Unregistered]

Great game in Mackay tonight. Plenty of lead changes throughout the night with the Meteors up at half by 6. Rocky came back strong in the 3rd and got up by as many as 8 into the 4th. Rhys Martin carried the team for most of the 3rd and pushed them to the lead. Picked up his 5th in the 3rd I think which slowed him up on the defensive end a little. Big call with around 5 to go with Aucoin called for a unsporstmanlike, resulting in Cooky hitting 2 free throws and a 3 point shot from Blanchfield putting the Meteors ahead. Cook getting the Meteors home in the final minutes making some good decisions offensively.

Must mention one of the biggest dunks seen in the Mackay stadium from Reggie Golson. Reggie got it on the break from Aucoin and took a bump from Jackson and Cook and proceeded to flush it with the left hand. It was huge!!!

Would be interested to see if that is the best 3 referees that the QBL has to cover such a game. Some very inconsistent calls throughout the night on both sides of the coin. You would think the QBL would put the best officials on the best games.

All in all a great spectacle in front of a packed house.

Just wondering what time of the game was Reggie's Dunk?

[The Trailer]

I heard that toowoomba will not be in the league next year but i have heard this rumour every year for the past two years, so should the qabl help them out or not ?

[Unregistered]

As long as they have people that wanna play I can't see any reason why they can't be in the league. Money is their big problem and yes QABL should help them out. Either that or more people could volunteer in the organisation. Probably got like 10 volunteers?

[Unregistered]

I heard that toowoomba will not be in the league next year but i have heard this rumour every year for the past two years, so should the qabl help them out or not ?
Why? Why wouldnt everyone get a "help" package? If QBL basketball is not a financially viable concern in the garden city then so be it. The BQ Board Chairman is from there but so nothing would surprise.

[Unregistered]

http://www.thechronicle.com.au/media/img/news/2009/07/20/back_30mbask3_kf_t325.jpg

Mountaineers to break horror streak (http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2009/07/21/mountaineers-aim-break-horror-streak/)

ZERO wins, 34 losses and one week to turn it all around.

This winter has been an embarrassment for both the men’s and women’s Mountaineers, each having lost the 17 games played.

Men’s coach Luke Petersen admits his team’s struggles have taken their toll, with players finding it hard to cope with the pressures of a winless season.

more...

[Unregistered]

Are Toowoomba getting a new coach? Do they have any money in the pipeline or will it be another year like this year? I'm sure some of their players who aren't committed to living in Toowoomba may want to find other clubs to run with, is there a comment out there from anybody in Toowoomba. Should they be in the league if they are just going to be making up the numbers. Surely at this level the bottom four or five teams should be splitting the home and away games with each other if they are being competitive. Losing by ten points when teams have rotated their whole bench doesn't mean they are competitive, it just means it wasn't another twenty points plus blowout. I'd like to see them there but obviously something drastic needs to be done.

Of Course Toowoomba should be in the League. Sure, they haven't won a game this season but last year they won 10, so they've not been bottom team year after year.

Why does something drastic need to be done?
Some smart planning and organisation needs to be done. The organisation needs to find a way to get some $$$ in the bank to put a couple of Players on the Court to go with their existing guys.

It's up to Toowoomba to find the cash though, not the League to give them a handout. If the money to put a couple of Players on the floor can not be found, then they should not play. This season has shown that they can not compete without spending money on Players.

And a new Coach is not the answer to their problems. I'm not saying they should keep their current Coach, that's up to them, but a change of coach without fixing the other stuff and they'll still be 0-18. But if you think you can win with their all local roster, better get your resume ready, if you're right Coach of The Year Award coming your way.

[Unregistered]

Toowoomba - Petersen - 0-18 Enough Said.
Ipswich - Lindenberg 3 wins with that roster not really good enough
Bundaberg - V-Dogg 2 Imports + bringing in others for 3 wins doesn't add up.
Townsville -Rose- Only because expectations are so high in Towny, Good roster but not enough results, mid season vacataion and suspension not up to scratch, and no timeouts all year.

Who should Stay, Who should go?

Anyone else in danger?

[give coaches a break]

Toowoomba - Petersen - 0-18 Enough Said.
Ipswich - Lindenberg 3 wins with that roster not really good enough
Bundaberg - V-Dogg 2 Imports + bringing in others for 3 wins doesn't add up.
Townsville -Rose- Only because expectations are so high in Towny, Good roster but not enough results, mid season vacataion and suspension not up to scratch, and no timeouts all year.

Who should Stay, Who should go?

Anyone else in danger?

V-Dogg although I am sure is a good coach, this year Bundy has severely under achieved. Two imports, Lloyd Lewis, Labka should of won a few more games.

Terry got thrown into the deep end in Ippy, they are sound on paper but beating Caboolture on the weekend giving them 3 wins is about as good as it was going to get for them. Terry won't do it next year unless no one else is interested I think.

Toowoomba - Certainly not coaches fault, it is the associations fault for letting both teams go into the league with no big guns. The team will go 0-18 no doubt, but think coach deserves a medal for putting his hand up to do the job in the first place.

Townsville - Rob Rose is a great coach from what I have seen, the disruptions didn't help, find it hard to see how he got suspended, from what I have seen he is a very relaxed guy must of been a SHOCKING call lol.

I think it is important to remember that all these coaches are volunteers! They give up 2 or 3 nights a week and weekends for very little in return. Good luck to all of them in retaining their positions.

[CRACK]

V-Dogg although I am sure is a good coach, this year Bundy has severely under achieved. Two imports, Lloyd Lewis, Labka should of won a few more games.

Terry got thrown into the deep end in Ippy, they are sound on paper but beating Caboolture on the weekend giving them 3 wins is about as good as it was going to get for them. Terry won't do it next year unless no one else is interested I think.

Toowoomba - Certainly not coaches fault, it is the associations fault for letting both teams go into the league with no big guns. The team will go 0-18 no doubt, but think coach deserves a medal for putting his hand up to do the job in the first place.

Townsville - Rob Rose is a great coach from what I have seen, the disruptions didn't help, find it hard to see how he got suspended, from what I have seen he is a very relaxed guy must of been a SHOCKING call lol.

I think it is important to remember that all these coaches are volunteers! They give up 2 or 3 nights a week and weekends for very little in return. Good luck to all of them in retaining their positions.

I thought it was a requirement that Qbl coaches get paid? maybe not for the clubs with low budgets.

[Unregistered]

Does anyone have any results/ news from the blaze camp last week?

[Unregistered]

Toowoomba - Petersen - 0-18 Enough Said.
Ipswich - Lindenberg 3 wins with that roster not really good enough
Bundaberg - V-Dogg 2 Imports + bringing in others for 3 wins doesn't add up.
Townsville -Rose- Only because expectations are so high in Towny, Good roster but not enough results, mid season vacataion and suspension not up to scratch, and no timeouts all year.

toowoomba - these guys have been in a slide since leaving the cross. don't see much talent on the bench either. doesn't take much coaching to give the ball to glover and let him shoot.

ipswich - the problem here is that they have too many coaches on that team. time to clean out the egos and a monkey can do better than they have in previous years. even terry and wello would do better. bring back danny.

bundaberg - two seppos should be able to get you more wins than that by themselves no matter what their locals are like. maybe michael should ask tweedy for some recruiting advise. don't matter though as i hear they have spent all their money on rum. nothing for next year.

townsville - tough pool. sixth overall is still pretty good but i am not sure the people running the qbl program really care too much about the program anymore. it seems they are happy to just go through the motions every year. same with rob.

[Unregistered]

Ipswich should bring back wello before they bring back danny. Maybe let Terry have another season and develop some juniors.

[Unregistered]

toowoomba - these guys have been in a slide since leaving the cross. don't see much talent on the bench either. doesn't take much coaching to give the ball to glover and let him shoot.

ipswich - the problem here is that they have too many coaches on that team. time to clean out the egos and a monkey can do better than they have in previous years. even terry and wello would do better. bring back danny.

bundaberg - two seppos should be able to get you more wins than that by themselves no matter what their locals are like. maybe michael should ask tweedy for some recruiting advise. don't matter though as i hear they have spent all their money on rum. nothing for next year.

townsville - tough pool. sixth overall is still pretty good but i am not sure the people running the qbl program really care too much about the program anymore. it seems they are happy to just go through the motions every year. same with rob.

A question many of these coaches/players will ask themselves is - why do they put themselves through it? Yes they love the game of basketball but losing every week in embarrasing circumstances must get tiring. Once again, it is important to remember that MOST of the coaches and players in state league do it for nothing!! It is a tough job, with no rewards for them at the end except people coming on here bagging them out for not doing a good enough job. I maintain if associations want to play in the QBL they need to pump some money into the program. Teams like Toowoomba, Ippy, Caboolture, Bundy, Gladdy are not going to survive in the league if they continue to get pummeled every week, at least Gladdy did something about it, and Bundy tried but failed - agreed V Dogg should probably get some recruiting advice from Tweedy.

On a different note - Rocky and Cairns are going to have the best records is it possible for them to play off in the final?

[Unregistered]

On a different note - Rocky and Cairns are going to have the best records is it possible for them to play off in the final?

Yes, as the top team (Cairns) will play the lowest ranked winner from the quarters (Gold Coast).

But they have to beat Mackay first....

Quarters:
Mackay vs Rocky - Brisbane vs Northside - Gold Coast vs South West

Semis:
Mackay vs Northside - Cairns vs Gold Coast

Final
Cairns vs Mackay

[Unregistered]

On a different note - Rocky and Cairns are going to have the best records is it possible for them to play off in the final?

Aside from any unforseen losses, the winner of the Cairns/Rocky game next week will finish on top of the ladder and host Finals.

If Cairns win, Rocky will play Mackay in Mackay (Mackay have the split 2-1 on Rocky). If Rocky win Cairns will play Mackay in Cairns (Cairns have 2-0) split.

The other quarter finals look to be Goldy/Southwest and Northside/Brissy.

The host of the finals (Cairns or Rocky) will then play lowest placed QF winner so has to be Goldy or Southwest.

The winner of Mackay Vs Cairns/Rocky will play winner of Bris/NS.

So if Cairns and Rocky win the QF against Mackay and Semi's then yes they can play in the final.

Talk about incentive to finish first though, not only do you get the home finals, you get QF week off then play Goldy or Southwest to make GF while loser of the Cairns/Rocky game has to get through Mackay then Brissy or Capitals.


So it's guaranteed that at least one of Mackay, Rocky or Cairns will not be in Semis, and One of Brisbane or Northside wont be in semi's, but Goldy or SW will.

Now Ipswich can still Mathematically make finals, and if they did and then beat Goldy they'd be semifinalists.

[BJ]

bundaberg - two seppos should be able to get you more wins than that by themselves no matter what their locals are like. maybe michael should ask tweedy for some recruiting advise. don't matter though as i hear they have spent all their money on rum. nothing for next year.


Bundy don't need help with imports, they've done just fine the past two seasons. Moore is ok, but Hanson is an absolute monster. Same deal last year with Jay Andersen.

On the money issue, I heard earlier in the season that Bundy have an absolute stacked budget for next year. Not sure where the $$$ is coming from, but apparently they will have plenty of it.

[Omni]

Toowoomba have been on a slide since leaving the cross? They went 10-8 last year, some people have short memories.

[Unregistered]

just throwing it out there, who in there right mind would volenteer to go play up the mountain alongside glover for little cash? even if they get a big man for next year, they seem to get duds, brown, pardue???

[Unregistered]

Bundy don't need help with imports, they've done just fine the past two seasons. Moore is ok, but Hanson is an absolute monster. Same deal last year with Jay Andersen.

On the money issue, I heard earlier in the season that Bundy have an absolute stacked budget for next year. Not sure where the $$$ is coming from, but apparently they will have plenty of it.

just having a big budget doesnt bring results but it does help u to offer bigger contracts, remember players wanna go to winning programs something which bundy are trying to do and have done ok with the girls team.

boys have had some excuses this year with guys quitting, guys who havent played in this league before and 8 new players from last years team means they didnt gel.

[Unregistered]

just having a big budget doesnt bring results but it does help u to offer bigger contracts, remember players wanna go to winning programs something which bundy are trying to do and have done ok with the girls team.

boys have had some excuses this year with guys quitting, guys who havent played in this league before and 8 new players from last years team means they didnt gel.

also season ending injuries to lewis, and parry

[The Trailer]

just throwing it out there, who in there right mind would volenteer to go play up the mountain alongside glover for little cash? even if they get a big man for next year, they seem to get duds, brown, pardue???
WHY don't they get a decent aussie with a reputation who can bring others in to there program?Why does every team have to get yanks all the time as imports?

[Unregistered]

Aside from any unforseen losses, the winner of the Cairns/Rocky game next week will finish on top of the ladder and host Finals.

If Cairns win, Rocky will play Mackay in Mackay (Mackay have the split 2-1 on Rocky). If Rocky win Cairns will play Mackay in Cairns (Cairns have 2-0) split.
The draw says that Rocky play Cairns in Cairns followed by Northside in Brisbane the following day - is that the most fked up double ever (travel-wise)? Even if Rocky manage to win in Cairns (not bloody likely) there's still some doubt over who would end up hosting the finals.

[Unregistered]

The draw says that Rocky play Cairns in Cairns followed by Northside in Brisbane the following day - is that the most fked up double ever (travel-wise)? Even if Rocky manage to win in Cairns (not bloody likely) there's still some doubt over who would end up hosting the finals.

Yes, That is the worst Double Header I've ever seen. I guess it could be worse and somewhere out of Brisbane you have to drive to after the flight.

But seeing it's Rocky, sounds faitr to me. Seasoned NBL/International professionals like those boys shouldn't even blink at that much travel.

[BJ]

WHY don't they get a decent aussie with a reputation who can bring others in to there program?Why does every team have to get yanks all the time as imports?

Well V-Dogg certainly gave it a shot. Tried for Trigger, and no doubt a few others. Thought Labka would've been better than what he was, but unfortunately has been a dud more often than not. Just out of curiosity, which Labka brother is supposed to be better than the other? Anthony/Tim.

[Unregistered]

WHY don't they get a decent aussie with a reputation who can bring others in to there program?Why does every team have to get yanks all the time as imports?

I think most teams would prefer decent Aussie guys, but there are not that many out there.

Based on when the NBL had 11 teams... Most teams have 3-4 players who are 4/5's. So that is 33-44 available bigs. Some of those are imports and others are top calibre and not going to play in the offseason (Anstey/McKinnon/Worthington etc...) So there are maybe 20-25 NBL type 4/5's floating around for all QBL, Waratah, SEABL, Big V etc... teams to choose from.

So when the player you're looking for is a big, the market is slim pickings. So to secure one of those players, unless there is a Home Town deal ala Taipans/Marlins, Crocs/Heat, Wildcats and WA League you generally have to pay well to secure them, if you've got someone interested.

A team like Rocky who has 1-2 imports each year and NBL calibre Guards then still has a better chance of landing said player becuase instead of being the attraction to bring others in, they can join a team already in championship contention.

That's some reasons we cellar dwellars struggle to attract quality Australian Players and up rolling the dice on Imports.

I also believe Rocky pay above the Minimum required payment to their imports which is why they get less duds through the door, recruiting out of better leagues. EG: Golson from Div 1 in Europe.