View Full Version : Hoop Dreamz shot down by officials
Interesting read in yesterday's Sunday Mail ....
A BRISBANE-based team of young African refugees which has been blocked from playing in a competition have accused basketball officials of racism.
The Hoop Dreamz team has lodged a complaint with the Anti-Discrimination Commission Queensland, alleging victimisation by Brisbane Basketball and its parent organisation Basketball Queensland.
Mediation has begun but Basketball Queensland says the players will only be allowed to compete in the new season, beginning next month, if they split up and join different teams.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,26625228-5007190,00.html
The Doctor
26-01-10, 08:44
Interesting read in yesterday's Sunday Mail ....
A BRISBANE-based team of young African refugees which has been blocked from playing in a competition have accused basketball officials of racism.
The Hoop Dreamz team has lodged a complaint with the Anti-Discrimination Commission Queensland, alleging victimisation by Brisbane Basketball and its parent organisation Basketball Queensland.
Mediation has begun but Basketball Queensland says the players will only be allowed to compete in the new season, beginning next month, if they split up and join different teams.
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,26625228-5007190,00.html
Typical that issues were allowed to escalate so far and a knee jerk reaction has happened.
Unregistered
26-01-10, 12:08
Typical that issues were allowed to escalate so far and a knee jerk reaction has happened.
No its not. Find out the facts. Everybody plays in teams assigned to them in that comp. These guys arent interested in following the rules the rest of us play by nor assimilating into association culture or australian culture generally.
Typical that issues were allowed to escalate so far and a knee jerk reaction has happened.
A word of advise, this incident is not finished yet and as such I would tread carefully commenting on something that you do not know al the facts about.
Unregistered
26-01-10, 21:26
No its not. Find out the facts. Everybody plays in teams assigned to them in that comp. These guys arent interested in following the rules the rest of us play by nor assimilating into association culture or australian culture generally.
My bad. Players arent assigned teams to play in this league. Nevertheless players of all nationalities from wherever are bound by the players code of conduct, the rules of Basketball and common law whereby people arent allowed to physically threaten intimidate or throw objects at other people especially referees. Amazing they dont all have life suspensions.
Good actioning of their duty of care by BBI and BQ to enforce the codes of conduct and public safety.
Unregistered
01-02-10, 00:20
As the coach of the teams, firstly would like to state that No i don’t think Australia is a racist country. In fact i owe my life to Australia. Most of you would have read the article without knowing the boys and the circumstances around this event and the whole season. I’ll try to inform you on some of the things these young youths have had to deal with.... before doing so none of the team members including myself ever said Basketball Queensland or Brisbane Basketball are Racist. The paper took something’s out of context..... When an official of the game said to an ex referee and three Caucasian youths without knowing they actually play for our team “did they all get off the same boat together” and more disturbing and hurtful comments i won’t mention, you tell me is that racist.???? And yes we did notify Brisbane Basketball of this and the other numerous things that have happened throughout the season but nothing was ever done. Most of you after reading the article think that this ban only effect two teams from playing but this is not true in fact another six teams aren’t allowed to play and three of those teams are under 12’s who have never stepped a foot into Brisbane basketball stadium. What is the rationale behind banning these teams that have never been to the stadium let alone played a single game there? Our teams are made up of all youths who want to join. Yes the majority happen to be African refugees but we also have Asian, European, Pacific Islander, Indigenous and Australian. The thing is we encourage any youth who wants to come down and participate in training or games to join.... EVERYONE IS WELCOME and we have made this public and many people know this. We made it very clear to the paper that this is more about the lack of opportunity that these youths have because many of them come from disadvantaged, low socio economic back grounds and some have dealt with many tragedies in their short lives. We began last year’s season with high hopes, not because most of our team members are “black” but instead we had an opportunity to play against other kids that we normally would be able to and to so^^^^^^e and feel accepted. The thing is i established PAWES (Providing Awareness With Education & Sport) to help young people who normally wouldn’t get a chance to try new things or needed assistance in the issues they may be facing and i used basketball as the tool to attract them in order to provide that assistance.
Many of you are damming these young kids and automatically believing that they are aggressive and did not follow the code of conduct or did not play in a sportsmanship way which is totally not the case. I put this to you after the grand final game there was an article published that weekend which explained how the game went and the nature of behaviour of that night which Basketball Queensland even posted on their website. The article mentions the behaviour of the players and the spectators and how it was a great event. (http://www.basketball.net.au/index.php?id=302&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=889&cHash=aaeccf3867)
So these allegations that suddenly popped up about aggressive behaviour and threatening actions of the players and spectators comes at a very convenient time to persons who feel threatened for some unknown or personal reasons. It may be because their actions have been put to questioning. The article mentions an official was surrounded by 30-40 spectators and later assaulted. This could not be any further from the truth 1) it wasn’t an official and 2) She had walked over to where the Hoop Dreamz supports were sitting and shouted at a young boy who i think was 10 years old at the top of her voice about popping ONE balloon. When a mother sitting close to the young boy got up and asked her to calm down she threatened to kick her out and the same to the sister of the young boy. To be honest she just lost it for whatever reason i don’t know. She might have had a bad day but that is no excuse to shout at people and act in an unprofessional and threatening manner. But when her actions were put to questioning a defensive approach was taking. Suddenly she was the one that felt threatened and the coins that were tossed on the ground were to apologise for the young boy popping the balloon but when the young girl wanted to give it to her she continued to shout and make hurtful comments as a result (which i don’t condone) the coins were thrown on the ground not at her face. This was also done when the official who made the racist comments actions were put to questioning. As a result that official made a complaint and because of his complaint they banned 3 players from playing without any evidence. Ohhh hold on there was video footage to support our case but guess what it “accidently got deleted” Is that convenient?
I erg to many of you who have read the article please don’t adopt the easiest of approaches of just pushing this aside, saying that look at these people playing the race card once again. Yes i understand it must be frustrating when people do this because Australia is a great place to live with good people in it. But Black, White, Pink or Orange people make mistakes and not everyone out there is a good person. Please see it for what it is not letting these young kids to play in a team that they feel comfortable to be in, with their friends, brothers, sisters and fellow Australians is actually not Australian and against the right of being an Australian of having a choice. Some of these kids might have come from refugee back grounds but they aren’t refugees now, THEY ARE AUSTRALIANS and as Australians they have a choice to play in a team they choose too. LET THE KIDS PLAY....if only you knew what this means to them... And please don’t forget that they are just kids, imagine if you banned your child from playing sports or a sport they want to play. How would your child and you as a parent feel because..... You’re only a kid once.
Unregistered
02-02-10, 11:03
My bad. Players arent assigned teams to play in this league. Nevertheless players of all nationalities from wherever are bound by the players code of conduct, the rules of Basketball and common law whereby people arent allowed to physically threaten intimidate or throw objects at other people especially referees. Amazing they dont all have life suspensions.
Good actioning of their duty of care by BBI and BQ to enforce the codes of conduct and public safety.
So from your statement you are saying that players ONLY and not the officials have to complie to the codes of conduct or any form of professionalism, respect or for care for safety. If I was a member of BBI I would be so embarressed and ashamed of a particular managing official who was suppose to be representing the association. If the behaviour was so distressing - why was the game not cancelled? Referee's probably shouldn't be throwing around racial slander or vilification either, but in your world only players have to be concerned about what their actions. There were three young men pulled before the judiciary and only one was given a significant sentence - this was due to the fact that there was a random accusation that he pushed a referee, but the tape that could prove otherwise
conveniently got broken after it was viewed internally. So it was his word against the offical. Maybe you should also read the police report about what they witnessed (or didn't witness more to the point) too.
dude you can be honest, Australia is a racist country and if it isn't well there are a sh!t load of racist ppl out there who think for some reason that because the union jack is at the top left corner of the flag that this is their country...
and from what i've heard of BBI from others involved with them in the past this event isn't a surprise because there's more politics going on there then in Canberra...
Unregistered
02-02-10, 14:02
I don't think this issue is about Australia being a racist country, it's about the fact that BBI were uncomfortable with a bunch of unknowns coming in and beating their teams (and assuming they didn't work hard to play as well as they do). It's about the fact that BBI did not know how to embrace the enthusiastic celebration from the spectators who dance and sing (for either team) if they do something good on the court. It's the fact that BBI felt it appropriate to accuse people over the P.A. system of graffiti and threatening to put them in jail in the middle of a grand final.
Young people and basketball will suffer as a result of a small handful of people and their disgusting behaviour.
Unregistered
02-02-10, 15:28
I don't think this issue is about Australia being a racist country, it's about the fact that BBI were uncomfortable with a bunch of unknowns coming in and beating their teams (and assuming they didn't work hard to play as well as they do). It's about the fact that BBI did not know how to embrace the enthusiastic celebration from the spectators who dance and sing (for either team) if they do something good on the court. It's the fact that BBI felt it appropriate to accuse people over the P.A. system of graffiti and threatening to put them in jail in the middle of a grand final.
Young people and basketball will suffer as a result of a small handful of people and their disgusting behaviour.
Hmmm, so it wasnt the actions of the team? hmmm, just getting kicked out for nothing? seems strange to me i think... could be more to it then some of you are making out...
Always 3 sides of the story, i can see that we are getting alot from 2 sides, but not alot of the truth.... hmmm, lets all be honest to ourselves. And cut this racist crap, tthings happen, and all of a sudden that word comes out, whether it was warranted or not. Pull your heads in, if they all did the right thing, this wouldnt of happened
Unregistered
02-02-10, 19:39
Hmmm, so it wasnt the actions of the team? hmmm, just getting kicked out for nothing? seems strange to me i think... could be more to it then some of you are making out...
Always 3 sides of the story, i can see that we are getting alot from 2 sides, but not alot of the truth.... hmmm, lets all be honest to ourselves. And cut this racist crap, tthings happen, and all of a sudden that word comes out, whether it was warranted or not. Pull your heads in, if they all did the right thing, this wouldnt of happened
Hard to believe but injustices still happen, sometimes it’s hard to believe as we have a society set up for things like this not to happen, so when it does its hard to believe. You say "but not allot of the truth" maybe you should inform us on what the truth is?
Also why is it hard to believe that there are racist people out there? It’s funny we state that we don’t live in a perfect world but when race/racism comes into it people like to deny automatically that racism is a part of our society and community. WHY CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG
Unregistered
02-02-10, 19:53
dude you can be honest, Australia is a racist country.
I'd like to know how anyone can possibly think a comment like that will help?
In what way does that help promote understanding and tolerance?
Hey everyone, been reading many of the blogs put up > by people putting us down and people defending us and people who just don’t know the facts but to be honest and truthful we are still not dealing with the real issues. BQ & BBI claim that the teams don’t play by the code of conduct and so on.... I and many others believe we did and would continue to do so if given the opportunity. The people who are really suffering in this are the kids specially 6 of our 8 teams who have never stepped a foot into any Basketball association in QLD (yes the ban is QLD wide and on our teams who have never played but have been training for a year now).
Yes i know someone out there will state things to try to justify this ban but really it has no justification as 2 of our teams are under 14’s and a under 12’s team. The questions we need to ask is what are both sides claiming and how can we fix this for the better of the game and the kids. I believe if both parties had come to the table in the beginning many of these issues and disputes would have been sorted.
Instead certain members of the BBI staffing felt the need to justify actions & decisions they shouldn’t have made on that night and throughout the season. And i understand BQ as the governing body has to ultimately protect the IMAGE of the game but at what cost. Instead of bringing both parties together and trying to resolve the issue they went to panic mode as certain choices made by a BBI staff member would have left them liable (ultimately that’s the truth). I know of certain people within BQ and BBI who aren’t supportive of this ban and the mishandling of this situation. A big reason why they haven’t come forward publicly is because of the fear of being kicked to the curve (in some cases with their children). Like many other sporting and work places have done when someone makes a complaint about management.
What most people don’t know is BQ and BBI had banned the teams last season as well so the kids are looking at missing another season as nominations close this Friday with BQ and BBI not wanting to let any of the teams play. This is overall a very depressing situation for our community and the game of basketball.
Unregistered
02-02-10, 22:27
I'd like to know how anyone can possibly think a comment like that will help?
In what way does that help promote understanding and tolerance?
i think its called being honest and calling a spade a spade, people like to hide behing the politically correct rubbish "it cant be racism we're not racist"
by firstly realising that we have a problem can you then break down the barriers and work out how to solve it.
i feel sorry for the kids who are caught in between the firing lines, good luck guys i hope BQ pulls their head in.
i think its called being honest and calling a spade a spade, people like to hide behing the politically correct rubbish "it cant be racism we're not racist"
by firstly realising that we have a problem can you then break down the barriers and work out how to solve it.
i feel sorry for the kids who are caught in between the firing lines, good luck guys i hope BQ pulls their head in.
Thanks, i hope so too.....
Unregistered
02-02-10, 23:41
i think its called being honest and calling a spade a spade, people like to hide behing the politically correct rubbish "it cant be racism we're not racist"
by firstly realising that we have a problem can you then break down the barriers and work out how to solve it.
i feel sorry for the kids who are caught in between the firing lines, good luck guys i hope BQ pulls their head in.
Ummm, so the kids that throw chairs ect, and have had issues prior to this final... thats the code of conduct people talk, its usually common sense. The game in question wasnt the first time there was issues with the team.
Any time theres hate, people call it rasism, yet when its a real issue, they turn and hide behind that rasism barrier again, its easy to hide being the big r word, but not so easy to fess up and take the punishment deserved... BQ acted upon a situation, and they usually get it right, but with that, one side isnt happy, always going to happen... reflect on the situation, come back after the suspension different and changed, thats the point... or fight the suspension, and still learn from your mistakes, not just hide blaming others... always someone elses fault...
[ The people who are really suffering in this are the kids specially 6 of our 8 teams who have never stepped a foot into any Basketball association in QLD (yes the ban is QLD wide and on our teams who have never played but have been training for a year now).
David you need to settle down as you are becoming the problem. Pretty sure it is not a State wide ban as others have offered to help and you have said no. Move on and around the situation if you are really concerned about the kids or is you own personal challenge more important? Take the olive branch offered by others to play elsewhere and prove your childrens case. Lots of thers have done just that. This is not racism. It is about two groups who would rather clash to prove their point that they are right. Not taking sides but if you really care about the kids playing then you need to move on.
Ummm, so the kids that throw chairs ect, and have had issues prior to this final... thats the code of conduct people talk, its usually common sense. The game in question wasnt the first time there was issues with the team.
Any time theres hate, people call it rasism, yet when its a real issue, they turn and hide behind that rasism barrier again, its easy to hide being the big r word, but not so easy to fess up and take the punishment deserved... BQ acted upon a situation, and they usually get it right, but with that, one side isnt happy, always going to happen... reflect on the situation, come back after the suspension different and changed, thats the point... or fight the suspension, and still learn from your mistakes, not just hide blaming others... always someone elses fault...
If you got your facts right you would know there was no chairs thrown and ect. That was a different team from 2 years ago .And no there weren’t any issues prior to the finals from both teams. What you have been hearing or whoever fed you this garbage is not telling you the truth. And actually the game in question was the first time BQ & BBI alleged that there was a problem after we had gone to the anti discrimination commission about some staffing behaviour. To prove my point when BQ and BBI were asked to provide any complaint documentation or anything to support their argument, they couldn’t provide anything except for statements from certain people from the game in question. So don’t be saying the game in question wasn’t the first time there was an issue. They have complaint forms and would have been filled out if there were any issues.
“Anytime theres hate, people call it racism” If you know any of the facts then you would know some BBI staff came out openly and made racist or discriminative comments and not just to us but other independent witness of the game throughout the season. Once again no place for this in sport or our community. ALL the kids have been suspended for one season already for something they didn’t do or deserve. 3 boys were taking in front of the sports tribunal (BBI) over a complaint made by a referee who happens to be one of the persons who came out and made racists comments in front of 3 other persons and an ex referee. Two of those boys received 6 weeks suspension and 1 received 1 year(it was alleged he attempted to chest bump the ref, when in fact the ref had pushed him). The 2 boys have already served there suspension. No other members of the two teams were brought to the tribunal or complaints put forward. Throughout the years i have seen and heard of teams who have played at BBI and other association and individuals who have been suspended have had to leave there team until there suspension was done while the team continued in the league.
We have many nationalities and age groups in our 8 teams who ware currently suspended and trust me they have learnt many things from this.
Unregistered
03-02-10, 11:58
[QUOTE= Always 3 sides of the story, i can see that we are getting alot from 2 sides, but not alot of the truth.... hmmm, lets all be honest to ourselves. And cut this racist crap, tthings happen, and all of a sudden that word comes out, whether it was warranted or not. Pull your heads in, if they all did the right thing, this wouldnt of happened[/QUOTE]
Yes the 3rd side of the story is the independant anti-discrimination committee who wouldn't have accepted the case if there wasn't one.
Unregistered
03-02-10, 13:27
Umm, could someone answer why the referees would say anything racist/push a player? what is it that a referee has to gain? they dont take sides, they arent biased, hell, friday nights we are hardly playing for sheep stations?
There may of been conflict ect, but hey, something must of happened prior to get the situation like this. The referees we have at BBI are very proffesional, and i cant see them doing what you guys are claiming, so please refrain from trying to lower this to the referees fault, cus blaming referees is getting old.
Umm, could someone answer why the referees would say anything racist/push a player? what is it that a referee has to gain? they dont take sides, they arent biased, hell, friday nights we are hardly playing for sheep stations?
There may of been conflict ect, but hey, something must of happened prior to get the situation like this. The referees we have at BBI are very proffesional, and i cant see them doing what you guys are claiming, so please refrain from trying to lower this to the referees fault, cus blaming referees is getting old.
I get your point, and i do stand with you as far as 99% of referees i have come across including the referees at BBI are professional and seem to be good people (what i have seen of them anyways). I'm not trying to lower this to the referees, simply stating a fact of one of the issues surround this situation. What you need to know is this particular referee did make these comments. For what reason we don’t know, he hasn’t tried to amend the situation or apologise for his actions.
One of the reasons this has unfolded the way it did but also what caused this conflict is the behaviour by the BBI Gm and how she behaved on that night and continued to do so.
Unregistered
03-02-10, 14:36
With alot of this hole situation coming from an issue with the referee in question. Did the team ever put in a formal complaint to BBI or BQ about the referee. Being a former referee at BBI I know how profesional they are and there is no place for someone acting like that. Players and coaches have rights too (I can't believe I'm saying that) but if an administrator, club representative or referee doesn't abide to their code of conduct, there should be a report placed against them, at least that way if it happens again there is a paper trail, and things can be acted on and proved.
I don't agree totally with Nagas on being racist, I think it is more we are so small minded that it is easier to attack someone on their colour or heritage then really get to the issues at hand.
Just my 2 bobs worth..
What about the u/12's who have been training all year? Why are they banned? Why are the girls banned before they even play? What about the u/18's who won their grand final and had an awesome season (with not a single incident) and werent allowed to defend their championship?
Every single one of these kids should be applauded for the effort AND conduct throughout the year, from where theyve come from to where they are now they are great examples of maturity and the growth one can undergo in life.
Forget racism. This just isnt FAIR.
Unregistered
03-02-10, 17:48
i think its called being honest and calling a spade a spade, people like to hide behing the politically correct rubbish "it cant be racism we're not racist"
by firstly realising that we have a problem can you then break down the barriers and work out how to solve it.
.
What bollocks. No one is denying the racism is an issue. That's a strawman argument that doesn't reflect well on the substance of the case.
But let's assume for a moment that the comment "Australia is a racist country" is correct. Even if it is, all anyone does by tossing it around in the way it is is:
1) Alientate the people you want to change and set them against you and
2) Offend the people who might be inclined to help you
The only people you don't offend and get offside are the people who already agree with you and have clearly failed to affect any change to this point. One. Great. Big. Circle. J***.
And on a related note, I see Mr 2 cent's comments in the pickup games thread. In it, he wrote:
"sunday afternoons kev broome undercover court if you feel like driving 6 hours to Gladstone mostly asians but not to bad for some fun...."
Hmmm.. maybe he's right.. but perhaps he should start a little closer to home.
Unregistered
03-02-10, 18:47
so because he uses the word asian he's a racist? did you want him to give an area shown by latitude and longditude?
pretty obvious now you're just looking for an argument and nothing else. if you had an idea of who 2 cents was, you'd ralise that implying he was racist is the funniest thing to read on this forum... other than 2 cents tips!!
Unregistered
03-02-10, 19:04
so because he uses the word asian he's a racist? did you want him to give an area shown by latitude and longditude?
pretty obvious now you're just looking for an argument and nothing else. if you had an idea of who 2 cents was, you'd ralise that implying he was racist is the funniest thing to read on this forum... other than 2 cents tips!!
Okay, I can't hold my tongue any longer. "Is Australia a racist country?" On a whole I would probably say no. Are there racist people in Australia? Yes a fair few. Have I met racist people yes plenty, they normally just don't like one or two types of races and stero type them as all the same. I think it is pretty appauling in this day and age.
I won't say anything about this particular incident, however I would really like to know why other teams have been banned?
Unregistered
03-02-10, 19:44
so because he uses the word asian he's a racist? did you want him to give an area shown by latitude and longditude?
pretty obvious now you're just looking for an argument and nothing else. if you had an idea of who 2 cents was, you'd ralise that implying he was racist is the funniest thing to read on this forum... other than 2 cents tips!!
I'm not so much worried about the word "asian" as I'm worried about the word "but". And unless it's a specific program set up to help a specific group, why should it matter what facial features and/or skin colour the people playing have? They're likely all Australian as far as I can see.
I don't much care about Mr 2 cents background. No one gets a free pass. All your point does is stress that he certainly should have known better. My point was that we can all be a bit careless where we shouldn't be on occasion.
Still waiting for someone to answer my question by the way.
How does declaring that Australia is a racist country help? So far all that's come back at me is a big bucketload of abuse and arrogant fail.
Racism generally comes from ignorance and a lack of education. I completely fail to see how taking a condascending and disdainful attitude to people is going to help that at all.
But no. You're just happy taking pot shots and pretending the solutiuon to abuse is more abuse. Sure.. that's worked so far. Not.
Unregistered
03-02-10, 19:49
Oh this is going to be an interesting day tomorrow when Mr 2 Cents gets to work....
With alot of this hole situation coming from an issue with the referee in question. Did the team ever put in a formal complaint to BBI or BQ about the referee. Being a former referee at BBI I know how profesional they are and there is no place for someone acting like that. Players and coaches have rights too (I can't believe I'm saying that) but if an administrator, club representative or referee doesn't abide to their code of conduct, there should be a report placed against them, at least that way if it happens again there is a paper trail, and things can be acted on and proved.
I don't agree totally with Nagas on being racist, I think it is more we are so small minded that it is easier to attack someone on their colour or heritage then really get to the issues at hand.
Just my 2 bobs worth..
Yeah we told BBI staffing of the situation a number of times but nothing was done about it. Hopefully the full story will come out surrounding this situation soon for everyone to see, its just there’s some restraints at the moment. The referees incident is only one from a number of things. We havent had any troubles from any of the referees prior to this, and i'm actually friends with some of them.
I guess that’s why we all felt we had to go to the anti discrimination commission as BBI did not want to address the issues and we felt we tried every avenue possible. No children Black or white should have to experience some things, as a result for it not to happen again i followed my duty of care as the coach to follow up on the incidences that occurred.
Yeah and your right its easier to attack someone on the easiest way possible and usually that’s their appearance or physical features and thats the sad thing about human nature. We usually judge the book by its cover not by its context. Race is not the only cover I’m talking about.
The great thing about being a young kid is having the innocence’s to look at life in a different way, to accept things sometimes before even trying it. Where as we grow up we tend to stick to things that we are familiar or comfortable with. Kids just want to have fun, play and interact with other kids . But as we grow up life seems to change us, we lose our innocence’s and we lose the sense of openness. If only we can carry this openness from birth to adulthood.
I guess that’s one of the reasons i find this situation regarding the Ban “unfair”. As its involving young kids.
wow i thought i'd let it go because it would be getting off the real topic but when i get back from my office training day where i will give you all the answers you need my obviously Caucasian (i'll explain why this is relevant this afternoon) unregistered friend
Unregistered
04-02-10, 11:15
wow i thought i'd let it go because it would be getting off the real topic but when i get back from my office training day where i will give you all the answers you need my obviously Caucasian (i'll explain why this is relevant this afternoon) unregistered friend
Must have been your time in the lock up at Aust Day that turned you racist... U sleeping and not causing trouble, I'd pay to see that....
DK
I'd just like to weigh in to remind people that the Internet is not anonymous and things that you say/post can & will come back to bite you on the behind. Feel free to keep this discussion going, but keep it civil and on topic.
Quite simply put: If you're going to post a comment about someone, make sure it's something you'd feel comfortable saying to their face. If not, then I'd suggest not posting it.
Thanks.
Firstly I will explain my statement “Australia is a racist country” may seem off topic to some but in his opening statement David took the time out to assure everyone that Australia isn’t racist, from my POV simply because after the paper article certain people as you mentioned would feel alienated or offended because they don’t believe that Australia could be racist… myself on the other hand has had enough of tip toeing around the issue…
And seeing as I don’t know much about the actual topic involved other than that I’ve heard BBI is more Political then Pauline Hanson and yes I mean political not racist and what I’ve read in the media. I thought I would comment on the topic I do know about, that’s whether or not Australia is a racist country… you see many people like yourself seem to think that because they don’t experience racial vilification or because your not racist that must mean that everything is peachy and our Country is great Multicultural hub and everyone loves everyone..
but racism is more then just not liking a person because of their race, it can be a simple thing like a persons attitude I’ve got many friends that like me but still wouldn’t think twice about describing aboriginal people they don’t know coons/abos etc (maybe not to their face) or Africans jungle bunnies or Muslims towel heads etc etc… I could discuss this for hours and I do on facebook groups and online news blogs but I’ll say in your defence although at a face level we are a much more culturally aware nation which is what you would see, unfortunately our attitudes behind the scenes are a little more ignorant, for example I’ve told many funny “white jokes” to white people which may seem racist but seeing as I’m Aussie surely that proves my point…
And in regards to the “mostly Asians but still good fun” comment that you ridiculously thought was racist, I’ll explain that as a general rule I’ve found that a large majority of Asians don’t play organised basketball outside of major cities but you see a lot of them playing pick up games at local courts. Now due to the fact they don’t play organised ball and they have mainly genetically short structures although it’s good fun and the games are good intensity it's not usually of a high skill level. So when someone says mainly Asians play this is usually explaining what sort of game you would expect to play there if you had of read the rest of thread you would of seen it mentioned a few times and not jumped to silly conclusions..
In relation to your how does declaring that Australia is a racist country help? If you haven’t noticed by now I’m a confronting person if people are offended by the truth well good that’s the reaction they need to realise there’s something wrong.. I don’t believe in pussy footing around things and in my humble opinion the real basis of this whole situation was that a group of people made the “locals” feel uncomfortable due to the “locals” personal attitudes towards these people of a different colour or culture… the question by me declaring Australia is a racist nation invokes is that if this was a “white” club would the same actions of happened???
I’ve seen heaps of kids pop balloons set up for grand finals without being yelled at a manner which has been described, I’ve had coaches and players kick an throw chairs at an ABA level.. our 7ft centre has even gone after a referee abusing him and “intimidating him” after a game all at the very same stadium which this occurred yet we are still in the competition and only the big guy was disciplined… and this is just myself one person who has seen these things at one stadium, there are many more stories of bad behaviour at other places, so how many other incidents have happened at BBI with other players and clubs at all levels that may have some semblance to what has occurred and yet I bet those individuals were the only members disciplined and their WHOLE club is still in the competition???
I guess we can agree though and noone has answered it yet… why have the other teams been banned????
i hope that answers some of your questions I would say more but I only have 30 mins for lunch and now I have to head back to training room…
Wisdom is being true to our inner self - thus bringing harmony and peace
into our lives. It's discovering a new idea or solution that meets everyone's needs.
Wisdom is also honouring people and caring about their rights. It is reflected in the courtesy with which we treat others. As there is no more noble occupation in the world than to assist another human being - to help someone to succeed.
Lets just hope BQ & BBI wake up to themselves as nominations for team acceptance is due tomorrow. And will be a sad day for many if not accepted.
Unregistered
04-02-10, 14:58
To The-Goat,
What are the chances of aproaching one of the current set up clubs and ask if you can put in your teams under the club banner. I'm not meaning to sound like I'm being a smart arse, but if you would like the kids to play together, is that an option? That way BBI&BQ can't refuse based on that?
I'm not sure here if you want the teams to be under a different banner, or starting up your own club, and understand if you do, but I'm sure 1 of the clubs would be welcoming to new members and increase the numbers.
Just a thought so at least the kids can play and not have to be penalised or miss out.
Jeanelle Hurst
04-02-10, 17:29
To The-Goat,
What are the chances of aproaching one of the current set up clubs and ask if you can put in your teams under the club banner. I'm not meaning to sound like I'm being a smart arse, but if you would like the kids to play together, is that an option? That way BBI&BQ can't refuse based on that?
I'm not sure here if you want the teams to be under a different banner, or starting up your own club, and understand if you do, but I'm sure 1 of the clubs would be welcoming to new members and increase the numbers.
Just a thought so at least the kids can play and not have to be penalised or miss out.
The question has to be asked again
Why do these kids have to be penalised and miss out on playing together
in their teams and under the PAWES umbrella
This isn't just head shaking stuff ...it's mind numbing stuff
The question has to be asked again
Why do these kids have to be penalised and miss out on playing together
in their teams and under the PAWES umbrella
This isn't just head shaking stuff ...it's mind numbing stuff
.
I can assure you that no one in a position to make these decisons is going to answer this or any other question you want answered on this public forum.
In future you might want to follow the proper procedure to have your concerns heard by the elected mangement committe of BBI.
Jeanelle, putting your case forward on Ben does might make you feel better but it does nothing to further your cause.
To The-Goat,
What are the chances of aproaching one of the current set up clubs and ask if you can put in your teams under the club banner. I'm not meaning to sound like I'm being a smart arse, but if you would like the kids to play together, is that an option? That way BBI&BQ can't refuse based on that?
I'm not sure here if you want the teams to be under a different banner, or starting up your own club, and understand if you do, but I'm sure 1 of the clubs would be welcoming to new members and increase the numbers.
Just a thought so at least the kids can play and not have to be penalised or miss out.
Thanks for your suggestion and to answer that question.. Quoting what BQ & BBI have offered is-
“The players being dispersed among the other Clubs that compete in Brisbane Basketballcompetitions (if they accept them). This does not mean that they can play as a team for adifferent Club, they must be mixed with other players.”
Hope that shows how crazy and unfair they are behaving. No other teams have EVER had to do this specially ones who have never even played ( Un12’s, Un14’s x2, Un18 girls, Un20 girls & GBL Silver), also not to mention our Un18 boys who WON the comp with no allegations put forward about the team ... the whole season.
They didn’t stop there; they also advised us they will not accept any teams who are supported by PAWES. An organisation which caters for disadvantaged, marginalised and young people who come from low socioeconomic backgrounds. The organisation is open to ALL but targets Young people from any background no matter of age, sex, religion and race. At the same time trying to discredit the team & me by making false accusations and rumours to try to justify their ban. As a result of the great work we do with PAWES i have received a number of wards not to mention the 2009 Pride of Australia award and i’m currently the 2010 Young Australian citizen of the year. So we aren’t bad people as they are portraying us.
One day left before team nominations are due. Aint looking good
.
I can assure you that no one in a position to make these decisons is going to answer this or any other question you want answered on this public forum.
In future you might want to follow the proper procedure to have your concerns heard by the elected mangement committe of BBI.
Jeanelle, putting your case forward on Ben does might make you feel better but it does nothing to further your cause.
Why is it wrong for the Basketball Community of Queensland to know what is really happening...
We have tried “the proper procedures” but people in power did not want to be reasonable or equitable. THATS WHY THE COMMISSION accepted the complaint. The only issue with that is a hearing will take months and these kids shouldn’t have to wait that long. Not to mention they have been waiting to play back in the comp since September. So don’t make it sound as if we didn’t follow “the proper procedure” . We tried for many months before hand.
Why is it wrong for the Basketball Community of Queensland to know what is really happening...
We have tried “the proper procedures” but people in power did not want to be reasonable or equitable. THATS WHY THE COMMISSION accepted the complaint. The only issue with that is a hearing will take months and these kids shouldn’t have to wait that long. Not to mention they have been waiting to play back in the comp since September. So don’t make it sound as if we didn’t follow “the proper procedure” . We tried for many months before hand.
First off Goat I was speaking directly to Jeanelle, but you have choosen to comment? I have never accused you of not following the proper procedure. Don't put words in my mouth, read what I posted to Jeanelle.
Right Goat it was you who choose to go to the commission and there is nothing wrong wth that, it was your decision and every Australian citizens right to do so. The hearing that YOU wanted did take months and during this period all your teams were not allowed to play at BBI as ordered by the states governing body. That was the process you choose to follow, it is called beaucracy and it takes time. The wheels are not turning fast enough for you now?
I would bet that once the proper procedure has been followed to its natural conclusion both sides of the story will come out. I would hazard to guess thou that no one at BQ or BBI will be posting their official statement on this forum.
I offer you this advice, posting your side of the story on a public forum while the procedure you choose to pusue has not run its course does nothing to speed up the umpires final decision.
I await your predictable response..
First off Goat I was speaking directly to Jeanelle, but you have choosen to comment? I have never accused you of not following the proper procedure. Don't put words in my mouth, read what I posted to Jeanelle.
Right Goat it was you who choose to go to the commission and there is nothing wrong wth that, it was your decision and every Australian citizens right to do so. The hearing that YOU wanted did take months and during this period all your teams were not allowed to play at BBI as ordered by the states governing body. That was the process you choose to follow, it is called beaucracy and it takes time. The wheels are not turning fast enough for you now?
I would bet that once the proper procedure has been followed to its natural conclusion both sides of the story will come out. I would hazard to guess thou that no one at BQ or BBI will be posting their official statement on this forum.
I offer you this advice, posting your side of the story on a public forum while the procedure you choose to pusue has not run its course does nothing to speed up the umpires final decision.
I await your predictable response..
Firstly for anyone to assume posts on this site would speed up “the umpires decision” would be having high hopes. And also lets not think BQ or BBI have not been telling their side of the story because they have been too many people, some may also pronounce on this site under the “Unregistered” user. And there’s nothing wrong with that- its their right and choice.
And we did come to BBI & BQ before going to the commission.
I await for YOUR predictable response.. As this is what got the teams into this situation as the result of Ignorance and lack of understanding.
And the reason why i commented was because we asked the same questions with no proper answers or justification.
Thanks for your suggestion and to answer that question.. Quoting what BQ & BBI have offered is-
“The players being dispersed among the other Clubs that compete in Brisbane Basketballcompetitions (if they accept them). This does not mean that they can play as a team for adifferent Club, they must be mixed with other players.”
Hope that shows how crazy and unfair they are behaving. No other teams have EVER had to do this specially ones who have never even played ( Un12’s, Un14’s x2, Un18 girls, Un20 girls & GBL Silver), also not to mention our Un18 boys who WON the comp with no allegations put forward about the team ... the whole season.
Actually your group is not the first to be told to disband. In last 80's SDBAL which had teams in the BBI competition was not allowed to nominate either. Seems BBI old guard not happy that players were electing to play for Districts at Classics rather then BBI. Carina stadium opened and Districts moved out taking a few other teams/clubs with them. They then became the dominate force in junior basketball for many years until BQ set up SWM using a reduced membership rate to attract player from Districts. All history now. Probably best thing BBI management ever did for Districts was force them to stand on their own. hahahaha
Firstly for anyone to assume posts on this site would speed up “the umpires decision” would be having high hopes. And also lets not think BQ or BBI have not been telling their side of the story because they have been too many people, some may also pronounce on this site under the “Unregistered” user. And there’s nothing wrong with that- its their right and choice.
And we did come to BBI & BQ before going to the commission.
I await for YOUR predictable response.. As this is what got the teams into this situation as the result of Ignorance and lack of understanding.
And the reason why i commented was because we asked the same questions with no proper answers or justification.
Right on cue, once again, predictably, you are looking to shift the blame.
So you expect us to believe that you and your teams actions had nothing to do with the situation you find yourselfs in now??
I think we are starting to see who/what is the real problem with this issue.
I leave you with this old saying "a fish always rots from the head"..
To The-Goat,
What are the chances of aproaching one of the current set up clubs and ask if you can put in your teams under the club banner. I'm not meaning to sound like I'm being a smart arse, but if you would like the kids to play together, is that an option? That way BBI&BQ can't refuse based on that?
I'm not sure here if you want the teams to be under a different banner, or starting up your own club, and understand if you do, but I'm sure 1 of the clubs would be welcoming to new members and increase the numbers.
Just a thought so at least the kids can play and not have to be penalised or miss out.
Goat never answered your question, so I will. PAWES have been offerd to play at 2 other associations that I am aware of, apparently they have not accepted those offers to date.
Jeanelle Hurst
05-02-10, 08:46
Goat never answered your question, so I will. PAWES have been offerd to play at 2 other associations that I am aware of, apparently they have not accepted those offers to date.
David Yohan
I stand firm with you today when you go to register the PAWES teams at BBI.
These kids were forced out of their villages, regions and countries running barefoot with less than the clothes on their backs.
Many of the kids we’re talking about travelled alone to Australia having lost mums, dads , brothers and sisters.
They’re living here with relatives and friends of friends of family members.
I’ve met single mothers who managed to escape with one child, leaving behind murdered husbands and starved children.
These children didn’t come to Australia to be thrown out of and away from their basketball association because a victimisation complaint has been made on their behalf and accepted.
These children need the emotional, financial and logistical support of PAWES and they need the support, understanding, respect and friendship of their association.
BQ and BBI are fully aware of the importance that PAWES plays in the lives of these children and yet they would seek to undermine and eliminate PAWES and discredit David Yohan in order to avoid and dispense with this issue.
I heard recently that South West may have received a significant Harmony Sports Grant for the 2010 year.
It was suggested to PAWES that they might like to run in that direction.
These children and youth are not funding fodder for Basketball Associations and Basketball Queensland.
And as convenient as this solution may have been to BQ and BBI and to South West this is not the solution for these children and youth.
One wonders…….if BBI had received a significant Harmony Grant in 2009………how much more care and consideration would have been taken when dealing with these kids.
Finally, when a family has a conflict, the children are not pushed out into the cold. The family stands firm and negotiates and resolves the issue.
And at the end of the day I believe that the children and youth playing under the umbrella of Basektball Queensland and Basketball Australia would support the right of these kids to play in their teams and within the BBI association.
Unregistered
05-02-10, 08:55
Man someone should go to a current affair with this shiz. its quite interesting, as it has an awesome story, and 2 very determined sides. The media would absolutely feast on this.
And Im not implying that this whole dilemma should be turned into a circus, but one would think that if the media got their hands on this, maybe the party in the wrong will be pressured to comply.
Jeanelle Hurst
05-02-10, 09:20
Man someone should go to a current affair with this shiz. its quite interesting, as it has an awesome story, and 2 very determined sides. The media would absolutely feast on this.
And Im not implying that this whole dilemma should be turned into a circus, but one would think that if the media got their hands on this, maybe the party in the wrong will be pressured to comply.
Don't consider this an option.
We are talking about children and youth who have done their time in hell.
Every time issues of colour and agression and 'duty of care to protect
players, referees and spectators' from these children and youth are raised
and used as a smoke screen in the media these children and youth are
exposed to danger on the streets by people who use that information for
their own personal agendas.
Take the time to speak to these children and youth and ask them what it's
like to be attacked at South Bank, parties, train stations and parks just
because they happen to be black.
I witnessed a glass bottle hurled at a black man in 2009 walking his
children to school at 8.00 in the morning. The botlle was thrown by
children I know and there can be no doubt as to the intent behing that
attack.
And thank god the bottle missed the man and his children and shattered
on the road in front of my car.
We are talking about real issues.... real children......we are not playing
political head hunting and planning BBI take overs.
We have one objective.
Allow these children and youth to be registered at BBI under the PAWES
umbrella.
Then go to the table and discuss and negotiate an equitable and fair
outcome for all parties concerned.
Unregistered
05-02-10, 09:36
Thanks for that lecture. But i want you to know that I am on your side. I actually volunteer at my church at the youth group and look after a group of sudanese kids with the same story, so i know exactly what it is like to deal with suffering as well as racism in different forms. the reason that I suggested the media is that I agree that BBI is in the wrong ( totally uninformed spectator, i am just going with what is being told on this forum, so i may be wrong, but i am entitled to have an opinion). I just think that this issue needs to be addressed, and i think if it was aired in a more public forum, viewers might actually become aware of the problem at hand and also may draw inspiration from these amazing kids and their stories. It may also set a precendent, and other associations from different sports can also learn from it, and maybe people in the same situation can plead their case. As Nagas said, "face to face" australia is generally a good country, but sub conscience attitudes and behaviours definelty exist, and by making this public, maybe guilty parties will be compelled to do the right thing.
No one wants to take advantage of these kids suffering. But we can all learn from this.
Multiculturalism is what makes this country great. Let us not destroy this. I am from another country my self, but love the fact that I can play ABA with fellow Australians without being discrimated against, I love how I can go to a playground and play with africans, asians, autralians, peurto ricans etc on a weekly basis and everyone is happy that we are just playing the sport that we love. I enjoy hearing stories like nagas (an aboriginie) playing basketball with asians and whoever else. Because as we know, basketball should have any barriers. Whether it be race, or ability or whatever. I know I can turn up to any court and play and enjoy myself, so why cant these kids enjoy the same thing. Why are they being singled out, and why is the one thing that they truly love, and the one thing that brings a community together be taken away from them?
Goat never answered your question, so I will. PAWES have been offerd to play at 2 other associations that I am aware of, apparently they have not accepted those offers to date.
seeing as you seem to know so much KOH why dont you tell us why the other teams (un12-14s etc) that weren't involved have also been banned...
why should these young kids change associations if there's no logical reason why they should not be in the competition other then BBI obviously doesn't want PAWES involvement in their association???
i also dont see a problem with airing the issue on a public forum i think it's of great public interest.. if this problem was so straight forward and it's all David's fault as you seem to be making out, im sure some BBI fanatic would of posted a feasible argument by now or at least some credible answers to other questions..
but the reality is the only responses have been weak hearsay accusations and pointing fingers and seeing as BBI is the biggest association in QLD i'm positive there are a few loyal readers who know the full story so it's easy to assume that BBI is in the wrong if no-one is standing up for their association which is usually the case on this site...
Good Luck today guys and if your nominations aren't accepted hopefully the commission comes through for you an the heads at BBI are shaken up or rolled..
HAHA cant wait to play the Caps in a few months down there, bring your kids along an cheer for the Power mate :)
Firstly want to thank everyone for their support and those who want to still believe we are the ones in the wrong... well your entitled to your beliefs as people make mistakes occasionally. Its parts of life, HOLD on you’re banned from living your life in Australia coz i’ve alleged that you have made a mistake. It doesn’t work like that does it. So why should it for these kids and i say these kids because other kids would never be subjected to these type of bans.
Leroy Loggins and i went to register the teams today but with no luck.. we miss out on another season.
KOH firstly don’t want you to think i’m attacking you coz i’m not but imagine if your 8-12 year old kid wasn’t welcomed to have ago and participate with his/her friends and or brothers/ sisters just because 3 players are alleged to have misbehaved from an older and different team and have served their individual bans . (once again allegations popped up after a complaint was made to the commission, and not a single complaint reported by BQ & BBI throughout the season).
But because your child may have the same complexion as the 3 players then its decided that everyone with the same complex is frightening and threatening without even knowing the individual. For god sake its a young child. How can an adult, staff member or someone at the association find a 10 year old boy or girl frightening. Oh also if your child is able to play he/she can only do so if they pay their own way. Doesn’t matter if they are poor, doesn’t have a job or whatever the circumstance may be because part of the ban is PAWES is not allowed to support these kids as no nominations or registrations for teams/individuals supported by PAWES will be accepted at BBI.
KOH could you help us in answering this question > what did PAWES ever do? Besides put the complaint forward to the Anti Discrimination Commission. Why ban PAWES? Sounds like it might be to attack the individual and the support for these kids... that’s just my though.
seeing as you seem to know so much KOH why dont you tell us why the other teams (un12-14s etc) that weren't involved have also been banned...
why should these young kids change associations if there's no logical reason why they should not be in the competition other then BBI obviously doesn't want PAWES involvement in their association???
i also dont see a problem with airing the issue on a public forum i think it's of great public interest.. if this problem was so straight forward and it's all David's fault as you seem to be making out, im sure some BBI fanatic would of posted a feasible argument by now or at least some credible answers to other questions..
but the reality is the only responses have been weak hearsay accusations and pointing fingers and seeing as BBI is the biggest association in QLD i'm positive there are a few loyal readers who know the full story so it's easy to assume that BBI is in the wrong if no-one is standing up for their association which is usually the case on this site...
Good Luck today guys and if your nominations aren't accepted hopefully the commission comes through for you an the heads at BBI are shaken up or rolled..
HAHA cant wait to play the Caps in a few months down there, bring your kids along an cheer for the Power mate :)
I do not respond to a guy who calls himself 2 cents, he is like the coin: of no value in todays society.
Jeanelle Hurst
05-02-10, 17:20
[QUOTE=Unregistered;23909]Thanks for that lecture. But i want you to know that I am on your side. I actually volunteer at my church at the youth group and look after a group of sudanese kids with the same story, so i know exactly what it is like to deal with suffering as well as racism in different forms. the reason that I suggested the media is that I agree that BBI is in the wrong ( totally uninformed spectator, i am just going with what is being told on this forum, so i may be wrong, but i am entitled to have an opinion). I just think that this issue needs to be addressed, and i think if it was aired in a more public forum, viewers might actually become aware of the problem at hand and also may draw inspiration from these amazing kids and their stories. It may also set a precendent, and other associations from different sports can also learn from it, and maybe people in the same situation can plead their case. As Nagas said, "face to face" australia is generally a good country, but sub conscience attitudes and behaviours definelty exist, and by making this public, maybe guilty parties will be compelled to do the right thing.
No one wants to take advantage of these kids suffering. But we can all learn from this.
I'm really sorry...i was rushing out the door and it's been a long week...it's just ....you know... you worry about these kids.....hey ..thanks for speaking up...smiles..........and i think in the coming weeks ...PAWES may need some help with coaching and mentoring as the numbers are growing....Dave would love to hear from you if you or others have some spare time...
Jeanelle Hurst
05-02-10, 17:23
I do not respond to a guy who calls himself 2 cents, he is like the coin: of no value in todays society.
That was cruel KOH..why is it when the questions are asked ...the insults fly
I do not respond to a guy who calls himself 2 cents, he is like the coin: of no value in todays society.
wow imagine how ignorant you must be to make a statement like that over a meaningless name on the internet!!! Imagine what you would do when your confronted with Difference / diversity in real life, wait we do... make allegations and push them as far away possible where they can’t be seen.
Why does it matter what he calls himself, he asked some logical questions. At the same time i was wondering if you could answer my questions as your with BBI? but for some reason i dont think we will get a straight answer or truthful ones. Hope the Public see whats really happening here. At the end the losers are the kids the game and not to mention our Australian communities . Anyways everyone, there’s no point talking about this anymore as nothing will be done. They wont change their stance and their ignorance ...to cover what they have really done to these kids. Hope everyone got to read a little about whats happening to us and you be the judge of the situation. And trust me i haven’t even mentioned half the things we were subjected to . Peace and thanks for the support !!!
That was cruel KOH..why is it when the questions are asked ...the insults fly
HA HA, even Nagas will get a chuckle out of that..but honestly the 2 cent coin has out lived it's usefulness.
Chill Jeanelle........;)
HAHAHA that was pretty clever KOHc
but sad for you at the same time cos everyone knows its a funny but pathetic attempt taking a literal meaning of someones name to dodge questions for which you obviously have no answers :)
so no need now KOHc i have all the answers i need thanks :)
Unregistered
06-02-10, 10:19
Maybe its just my simplified approach but if this is all about having the kids play basketball and, if the offer to play at other associations is true (which it seems to be as a couple of people have mentioned it), why not just go there and have the boys & girls play. Clearly they are happy to have the teams play at their associations so why not go to a place that wants you and will welcome you.
Whether you think you have the right to play at BBI or not, surely coming on here and giving them a mouthful doesn't help your cause at all. Surely allowing the Anti-Discrimination Council/Commission to make its ruling would be the right procedure to follow whether the outcome is in your favour or not otherwise why did you bother bringing it to their attention in the first place.
HAHAHA that was pretty clever KOHc
but sad for you at the same time cos everyone knows its a funny but pathetic attempt taking a literal meaning of someones name to dodge questions for which you obviously have no answers :)
so no need now KOHc i have all the answers i need thanks :)
Nagas you will never get a response from me cause your just a stirring tool from CQ. You know nothing of this issue and you never miss an opportunity to bag BBI, and we know why that is.
It is true that in todays society 2 cents gets rounded down to nothing, which is equal to your knowledge of this situation and your input to this discussion. Thats what's sad...
hahaha it seems you have no balls to go with that KOHc an no answers either..
haha you think by talkin trash about a 2 cent coin really means anything..
the name 2 cents comes from the saying to put your 2 cents/bob in (or to have an opinion) of which i do on pretty much everything.. not an OUT OF DATE COIN you tool from Brisbane who i would name but is too pathetic to put a real name to their post or answer a simple question...
oh please it's got nothin to do with BBI i would say the same thing if it happened at any other association
the fact of the matter is whoever is responsible for banning a bunch of kids un 12-14 especially for something an older person may or may not have done is pathetic and your pathetic for thinking by making up some lame ass calls about a coin, you think i actually give a cent on what you think or that im going to stop commenting on how you cant answer that simple question...
Unregistered
06-02-10, 21:14
Have taken the bait - but my view as a BBI player.
I don't care about the race or colour of my team-mates or opposition.
I don't like playing in an aggro environment. Its just a bloody game - not life and death.
I dont like playing against dickheads - and my experience so far tells me there are dick heads in all races.
I want to play with and against people who do not have chips on there shoulders and are likely to take it out on me. I dont want my association and referees to place chips on other players shoulder - as they may see me the white kid as a way of getting back at them.
I want to play ball next week in a non threatening environment. My other option is to give it up and concentrate on Year 12.
End of rant
hahaha it seems you have no balls to go with that KOHc an no answers either..
haha you think by talkin trash about a 2 cent coin really means anything..
the name 2 cents comes from the saying to put your 2 cents/bob in (or to have an opinion) of which i do on pretty much everything.. not an OUT OF DATE COIN you tool from Brisbane who i would name but is too pathetic to put a real name to their post or answer a simple question...
oh please it's got nothin to do with BBI i would say the same thing if it happened at any other association
the fact of the matter is whoever is responsible for banning a bunch of kids un 12-14 especially for something an older person may or may not have done is pathetic and your pathetic for thinking by making up some lame ass calls about a coin, you think i actually give a cent on what you think or that im going to stop commenting on how you cant answer that simple question...
2 Bob, this is not the forum and both BQ and BBI are following the recomendations of the independant inquiry and the commision. If as you state you know who i am and you truly want the answer to your question, which i find highly unlikely, ring me. I will privately tell you, but not on this public forum.
Thanks for the history lesson on the origins of the saying 2 cents worth, very enlightening. But once again you missed my point, to ME your oppinion, views and statements on here are old, dated and worthless, just like the 2 cent coin. Because of this I think your Nick suits you perfectly...
Jeanelle Hurst
07-02-10, 08:42
[QUOTE=KOH;23946]2 Bob, this is not the forum and both BQ and BBI are following the recomendations of the independant inquiry and the commision. If as you state you know who i am and you truly want the answer to your question, which i find highly unlikely, ring me. I will privately tell you, but not on this public forum.
KOH how do you know the recommendations fo the independent inquiry.?
David Yohan has made repeated requests to be given the independent
enquiry recommendations.
As of today 7 Feb 2010 ....David still has not received a copy of the report.
And yet a journalist quoted from the Harrison's independent report in
the Sunday Mail newspaper artical dated 24 January 2010.
Who gave the journalist access to the report.?
in this artical.....
'Mr Harrison recommended that Basketball Queensland's code of conduct
be read to the Hoop Dream team before their next game.'
2 Bob, this is not the forum and both BQ and BBI are following the recomendations of the independant inquiry and the commision. If as you state you know who i am and you truly want the answer to your question, which i find highly unlikely, ring me. I will privately tell you, but not on this public forum.
Thanks for the history lesson on the origins of the saying 2 cents worth, very enlightening. But once again you missed my point, to ME your oppinion, views and statements on here are old, dated and worthless, just like the 2 cent coin. Because of this I think your Nick suits you perfectly...
A few things KOH or should i say Mr B$@*&*!,
•Firstly you weren’t there on the night. So all your information is second hand and not to mention from the people we have complained about to the commission.
•Dont bring the commission into this as they have not requested any recommendations for BQ & BBI to follow.
•The ban on the 2 teams was made before the so called “independent report was finalised”
•After the report was finalised we request as our right to view the report, But BQ & BBI have upto today since sept/oct 2009 still refused to provide a copy of the report. The anti discrimination commission have also request for a copy but BQ & BBI denied their request. (If they don’t have anything to hide i question why they won’t let us view the report)
•No one besides BQ & BBI know what the report says.
•Another thing i find it hard to believe that a big association will put them self in a possibly liable position by ordering a so called “independent report” (Which we requested for but have not seen including the commission). In another words hard to believe BQ will pay $15 000- $20 000 for a report that will find them liable.
•Also the report was on the allegations of 3 players from 1 team and now i’m going on the leaked information to the media on a small number of spectators.
• As a result I find no justification on the ban on the 8 teams, especially on the 6 teams that had not even attended BBI at any time last year.
ALSO many believe none of our evidence was used in determining an unbiased decision instead the evidence used was what BBI and BQ provided. Once again many know if our evidence was used the report would not have come to the conclusion that there was no discrimination or victimisation as it stated in the leak of the report to the media.
If the anti discrimination commission believed the same as the “independent report” they would not have ACCEPTED our complaint. They would have simply threw it out.
really think about whats happening, can you sit there and think this is right, do you want to be a part of association which treat diversity like this? Also you haven’t answered any of the questions.
Jeanelle Hurst
07-02-10, 10:30
Maybe its just my simplified approach but if this is all about having the kids play basketball and, if the offer to play at other associations is true (which it seems to be as a couple of people have mentioned it), why not just go there and have the boys & girls play. Clearly they are happy to have the teams play at their associations so why not go to a place that wants you and will welcome you.
Whether you think you have the right to play at BBI or not, surely coming on here and giving them a mouthful doesn't help your cause at all. Surely allowing the Anti-Discrimination Council/Commission to make its ruling would be the right procedure to follow whether the outcome is in your favour or not otherwise why did you bother bringing it to their attention in the first place.
The question remains.
Why aren’t the children and youth welcome at BBI.
We haven’t come here to give BQ & BBI a mouthful.
We’ve come here to discuss this issue
with the people who are
BQ & BBI.
The rules governing all associations are the same.
All associations function under the safety net of the BQ umbrella.
‘Basketball Queensland says that it is necessary because referees have
felt threatened by Hoop Dreamz players and the sporting body has a duty
of care’. (Sunday Mail 24 Jan 2010).
If the children and youth are a threat to players, referees and spectators.
Why are they allowed to play in their teams and under the PAWES umbrella
at other associations..
Why aren't they a threat to the other associations..
Where is the duty of care to the other associations...
And what kind of reception will the kids receive when
they go to the other association...
'Hey, here come the kids who were booted out of BBI.'...
On the grounds of aggression & threatening behaviour .....
What kind of signal is that to send to the kids in the next association.
What kind of signal is this sending to the kids at the cenre of this mess.
If BBI is the biggest and most powerful association in Qld then the boot
has to stop here.
Jeanelle Hurst
07-02-10, 10:37
Have taken the bait - but my view as a BBI player.
I don't care about the race or colour of my team-mates or opposition.
I don't like playing in an aggro environment. Its just a bloody game - not life and death.
I dont like playing against dickheads - and my experience so far tells me there are dick heads in all races.
I want to play with and against people who do not have chips on there shoulders and are likely to take it out on me. I dont want my association and referees to place chips on other players shoulder - as they may see me the white kid as a way of getting back at them.
I want to play ball next week in a non threatening environment. My other option is to give it up and concentrate on Year 12.
End of rant
Hi
Yes…these kids just want what you do…to play the game
May I speak quietly with you about something….
You know how organizations have financial audits and safety audits..
Why couldn’t we have a racial tolerance audit at BBI. ?
It doesn’t have to be an audit of statistics, graphs and reports…
It could be as simple as conversations between players, coaches,
spectators and management….
With questions about difference, colour and race…how does it feel
not feel…how does it impact on the everyday stuff… ?
The racial tolerance audit could be run by the kids and for the kids..
Get a bunch of the senior kids together representing all the clubs..
Get a game plan…
Social events could be staged by you kids…dances…barbeques..
Fundraising activities…common strategies for common outcomes…
Solve some problems and have lots of fun along the way….
And at the end of the day…you kids could stand proud and say
We saved the day….
let em stay & let em play..
Unregistered
07-02-10, 11:30
Last of my posts - I'm not sure if your accusing me of race intolerance. I dont think I am - but ask the islander, indiginous, asian, philipino, African s & even the bros from NZ already playing at BBI & BQ whom I have played with/against and even roomed with.
I don't look to my Fri nights at BBI as a apprenticeship for a job at UN, so I don't wander around all night meeting new people. I go there, play ball and leave. As I said earlier I'm happy to play with/against anyone, as long as they meet the no dickhead policy.
Jeanelle Hurst
07-02-10, 11:51
Last of my posts - I'm not sure if your accusing me of race intolerance. I dont think I am - but ask the islander, indiginous, asian, philipino, African s & even the bros from NZ already playing at BBI & BQ whom I have played with/against and even roomed with.
I don't look to my Fri nights at BBI as a apprenticeship for a job at UN, so I don't wander around all night meeting new people. I go there, play ball and leave. As I said earlier I'm happy to play with/against anyone, as long as they meet the no dickhead policy.
i'm not accusing you of race intolerance..
i was kindof impressed with the way you spoke
and are speaking now...
Unregistered
07-02-10, 12:18
i'm not accusing you of race intolerance..
i was kindof impressed with the way you spoke
and are speaking now...
just for the info im putting this out there i know that koh is definately not mr bagheri
This issue is now that of a delicate nature and as such it is extremely difficult to extract the raw emotion while trying to making valid argument or rebutall.
I don't envy the position of any of the parties that are involved in this issue and i won't even begin to try decipher fact from fiction and who is the best source of reliable information.
What i can comment on is -
Attempting to garner support on this forum is futile, this board is not considered to be an accurate source of information and certainly not the place to lobby the Anti DiscriminationCommision.
2 cents attmempting to weigh into this debate when you are not at the coal face is a little wrong - but that's just my opinion. The irony of you weighing into this debate is that some "naive people" will cash in on the fact that because you have a darker complexion to me that your opinion will count more when the reality is it doesn't - because regardless of skin colour, political persuasion and whatever else makes any of us as diverse as we are - we are all equal.
Now before anybody tries to twist my words to use them as a valid argument or point of difference in this whole debate - don't bother, you wil only be taking a pice of what i say out of context and use it in a way that was not intended.
Ben i think it might be time to close this one off as it is obviously an emotional issue being dealt with what is being said couldnt and shouldnt influence any decision makers as it is inappropriate forum in which to do so.
well said Mugs,
altho not to sure why my darker complexion would count for anything except for the fact that my sunscreen bill is a little lower then yours.. your welcome to your opinion but it is a public forum after all and i did state at first that i was only commentating on what i knew then KOH dragged me further and of course i took the bait...
as for KOH who ever you are congrats you have done a great job i hope one day Mugsy will stick up for me or say hi to me when he sees me like he does you...
but i still dont care what you think of me or my comments if you would like to tell me your side come up an introduce yourself at the classics or after the game when we beat you guys down there this year :)
Unregistered
07-02-10, 15:57
A few things KOH or should i say Mr B$@*&*!,
•Firstly you weren’t there on the night. So all your information is second hand and not to mention from the people we have complained about to the commission.
•Dont bring the commission into this as they have not requested any recommendations for BQ & BBI to follow.
•The ban on the 2 teams was made before the so called “independent report was finalised”
•After the report was finalised we request as our right to view the report, But BQ & BBI have upto today since sept/oct 2009 still refused to provide a copy of the report. The anti discrimination commission have also request for a copy but BQ & BBI denied their request. (If they don’t have anything to hide i question why they won’t let us view the report)
•No one besides BQ & BBI know what the report says.
•Another thing i find it hard to believe that a big association will put them self in a possibly liable position by ordering a so called “independent report” (Which we requested for but have not seen including the commission). In another words hard to believe BQ will pay $15 000- $20 000 for a report that will find them liable.
•Also the report was on the allegations of 3 players from 1 team and now i’m going on the leaked information to the media on a small number of spectators.
• As a result I find no justification on the ban on the 8 teams, especially on the 6 teams that had not even attended BBI at any time last year.
ALSO many believe none of our evidence was used in determining an unbiased decision instead the evidence used was what BBI and BQ provided. Once again many know if our evidence was used the report would not have come to the conclusion that there was no discrimination or victimisation as it stated in the leak of the report to the media.
If the anti discrimination commission believed the same as the “independent report” they would not have ACCEPTED our complaint. They would have simply threw it out.
really think about whats happening, can you sit there and think this is right, do you want to be a part of association which treat diversity like this? Also you haven’t answered any of the questions.
Just a thought old mate...why would anybody whose paid $20K for a report (wild guestimation I might add) give you a copy of it? Shell out some of that grant money and commission your own.
Has it occurred to you that maybe BBI and BQ feel you and Ms (Bleeding) Hearts may have breached the relevant codes of conduct and/or their members simply dont want their association and competitions becoming racially motivated legal battlefields? Dont think they banned individuals from registering with other teams and assimilating into the association teams and playing basketball like everybody else did they? More the groups of racially diverse youth bringing totally uncool and inappropriate behaviour to their association, then their 'minders' jumping in and playing the racial discrimination card before the shite really hit the fan thats probably got those bodies (understandably) wary about any future relationship.
Does BBI HAVE to be the place that PAWES play basketball? If the BBI membership vote that they dont wish to have or dont have the court space and volunteers to accomodate what is effectively another member club (Pawes) then that is actually their right. They dont need to be called racists and reported to anti discrimination commissions and publicly ridiculed for their considered decision.
Other associations have no dramas with you so why not go where you can be accomodated? The rules were there before you guys came along. You didnt make them and you wont change them. Accept and assimilate or find another sport.
Just my take on things but you could probably conclude that you guys have done your dash with basketball. You'll know better with the next sport you join up with.
You know between the personal insults and unsubstantiated comments I think this thread has just about run out of legs.
Thanks.
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